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 2wd/4wd concept

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Jonny Briggs
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PostSubject: 2wd/4wd concept   Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:34 pm

Hi there

I love this forum, nothing like this over here in the UK! Anyway back to the post.

I've finally collected all the bits from various mowers to make a 4x4. Plan is to mount a trani centrally pointing up and down the chassis, then use the axles and prop shafts, connected to the diffs from two peerless tranis. Front end is sorted with a UJ configuration PTO I found on eBay. Going to weld up a new chassis and ditch the mower one.

The question is, how could I make it selected 2/4wd? If I have a clutch/ pressure plate set up going to the front wheels then the drive would not turn the rear wheels but the disengaged prop?

One solution would be to some how disengage the front drive and break the free prop, but this mean all power would transfer through the central diff in the inefficient way.

Hmmmm

Jonny
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BlackMountian88
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:26 pm

AWESOME! I absolutely love the idea! I would just do 4X4 all the time, who needs 2 wheel drive!

Now steering may be tough tho.
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Jonny Briggs
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:34 pm

I guess I could leave it in 4wd all the time!

I guess its a good problem to overcome

Jonny
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BlackMountian88
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:39 pm

Ya that's all I can think of, maybe a mechanical clutch if you really wanted, but it's probably best to be simple.
Post some pictures of your progress, we'd love to see!
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Chopperhed
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:41 pm

You could lock the center diff.

Or, Eliminate the central diff all together, and have the front and rear diffs driven off a common center pulley. Then all you would need to do is clutch the front belt.

My self,
I'd go full time 4 x 4
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:35 pm

your making this sooo much more complicated than you need it to be
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:39 pm

look on the second page of the build threads, at 4x4 Monster Mower I think its called, by superswamper77. it is not finished and people donot understand our design for it, but if you look at the pictures of it now, you need two transaxles one being a steering axle and the other the same transaxle but not steering. they both need to be the same gear ratios throughout the gears. with superswamper 77's design he has the front axle turned around going the wrong way, what you need to do is flip it back around like the rear transaxle would be. and then I will make a paint drawing so you understand what im talking about
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:29 am


the first belt runs to the back tran and. that shaft also has another pulley mounted to it so that it it can connect to the front tran. this makes it so that if you let off the clutch it will turn the back transmission and the secondary belt(the lower one in the picture) will turn the front transmission. if you want to put it into two wheel drive, you move a leaver that you can attach t the spring loaded tensioner on the secondary belt. and if you want it 4x4 make the tensioner tight, instead of using 3 transaxles just use two and sets of belts and pulleys
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:16 am

I would just leave it full time 4x4.

I tihnk Chopperhead has the right idea with just going with a common center pulley. Make life easier I think. Then you could just put the front in neutral when you dont want to run it in 4.

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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:31 am

These are some great ideas. I've been contemplating how to do a 4X4 for some time, that drawing is great!
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Jonny Briggs
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:29 pm

Okay, second question. Do I use the hydro trani as the gerbox or a 3 speed peerless?

Its now powering two axles, would the hydro overheat?

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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:05 pm

I would go with 2 geared trannies if you ever intend on using it offroad.

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Chopperhed
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:57 pm

@Jonny Briggs wrote:
Okay, second question. Do I use the hydro trani as the gerbox or a 3 speed peerless?

Its now powering two axles, would the hydro overheat?

Jonny

Stick to the peerless
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jaymz_eric
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:36 am

dude i wanna see some pics of this build!!! lol
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Jonny Briggs
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:37 pm

I will post pictures when the bits start going together.

Have a slight conundrum now though, I bought 2 tranis off eBay thinking they were both peerless ones and one is a hydro gear one.

Now I would liked to use the two peerless ones for the donor axles and diff as they are the same, but that leaves me with the hydro box as the main transmission, unless I get another peerless.

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dangeroustoys56
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:59 pm

I plan on trying a 4x4 setup on my GT murray ( when i get around to building it) - im going with a 'modifed' ( home built) noma 4ws style trans up front , it wont be a true 4x4 because the front wont be locked .

I thought up a 4x4 setup for my 90's GT6000 - use a 69 wheelhorse side input 3 hi/3low trans up front and mount stock rear tires to it - id have to build a steering setup with heavy duty ujoints - basically it would be setup for trail or mud - no climbing.

The drive setup would be a twin horizontal shaft motor - since the rear is already a side input, one side of the motor would drive the rear trans - the front trans would utilize the stock deck clutch by mounting the motor sideways in the chassis.

The theory is id be able to use the stock trans setup as normal, but be able to engage the drive to run the front trans in all '6' gears - forward and reverse , but put it in neutral and shut the clutch off to run in 2 wheel only.

Only issue i see is itd steer pretty hard with all the weight up front and large wheels, unless i found a steering rack off a golf kart or something.

If i lifted it, it wouldnt be much - just to even the stance would be all.


The best part would be brakes on the front and rear trans to slow/stop it.
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Jonny Briggs
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:12 pm

I stripped the two trani's down today, and have designed the housing for connecting the input shaft to the diff. Hopefully post some pictures this week.

Jonny
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:44 pm

Great!

How are you going to do steering? I've been wondering how that's going to work.
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:39 pm

I've got something off eBay, pre made power take off thing with hub, UJ and bearings,

Similar if not the same as the Monster Mower post setup

They should be coming this week.
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:28 pm

I've got something off eBay, pre made power take off thing with hub, UJ and bearings,

Similar if not the same as the Monster Mower post setup

They should be coming this week.
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:40 pm

May or may not work, but for steering, Bare with me now, What if you made the steering a transaxle as stated before, and made it turn on it's own centerline? (keeping the pulley in the same exact position.)Making the transaxle swivel could come from something like one of those swivel computer chairs.Then from there, you could use a normal steering set-up...
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:01 pm

That's doable, but you'ld need a long axle and narrow frame to do it, in order to get a decent turning radius, it would also be unstable as hell at any speed.

Its nearly an articulated tractor, which is another way to do it if you put a pivot point at exactly the same center line as your center pulley. A belt would even allow for some twist if you have good idlers.
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:36 pm

Now that I imagine this, it almost seems like a bicycle fork and steering
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:38 pm

Just have to remeber the arc the front axle will follow when turning.
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PostSubject: Re: 2wd/4wd concept   Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:47 pm

Yeah,so it would run into the whole 90 degree turn thing. I wonder how you'd do direct steer with this thing
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