All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum

Like riding lawn tractors through mud, woods, rocks, and snow? Then this is the place for you! Share your ideas, Post your projects and more!
 
PortalHomeSearchRegisterLog in
Welcome to the All Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum!
2019 Build Off Underway!

Share
 

 Hotwiring Vehicles

Go down 
AuthorMessage
W1ldyOvvnZ
Skilled
Skilled
W1ldyOvvnZ

Age : 23
Join date : 2011-12-06
Posts : 499
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Winchester, ON, Canada

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeMon Feb 04, 2013 11:13 pm

i drove my sled to school today and when i went to drive home and the snowmobile wouldn't crank so i attempted to diagnose the problem, first i got frustrated and kept turning the key back and forth(its an electric start) then i looked for the fuse box and noticed it was zip-tied shut and i kept my knife at home because i had a hole in either pocket, i ended up finding a lighter in my book bag and melted the zip-tie then noticed the fuses weren't burnt and then looked for the battery and the connections were solid. Then i looked for the starter solenoid and crossed the terminals with a stainless steel spoon in my book bag too, it cranked but there was no spark so i guessed it was the key switch and i ended up crossing two wires with another find from my book bag (a wire) and the sled started up and i disconnected the wire and got home.

This sort of bugged me on the way home, i was thinking about it and all you need to do to steal another snowmobile is carry a piece of wire around 3" long with the insulation stripped on either end, im assuming this is the same with Lawn Tractors, ATVs, UTVs, etc. .Don't you think that they should have more of a security system on these? i tried it on my sisters sled(2010 Polaris Rush 600) and it worked too so its not because my sled is old. i know BRP has some kind of security system like most cars where the key sends a signal to the ECU that its the right key. Just thought it would be something nice to have to make you feel safe when your parking your vehicle you spent to much money on in some sketchy motel or something.
Back to top Go down
http://www.stat10.tk/
Doug
Administrator
Administrator
Doug

Age : 24
Join date : 2012-12-24
Posts : 2892
Forum Rep : 48
Location : Lebanon County, PA

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2013 12:00 am

Mowers and stuff dont have it because near everybody has them so they arent worth stealing.

You cant steal a modern car the same way, the steering columns lock up unless the key is inserted.

If your key switch works right when its in the OFF position it will ground the engine so its shouldnt start unless the thief tries to unhook it.

Myself personally when I had my Gen1 racer at auto overnight I would remove the wire from the battery to the solenoid and put it in my locker. Thats where wingnuts come in handy.

_______________________________________________
Head Forum Administrator ** Chat Moderator ** Facebook Page Admin
ATLTF Facebook Page ** Chatbox ** How To Upload Pictures

_X_ FORUM ANNOUNCEMENTS _X_


Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@Doug" in your post!

Your ATLTF Staff:
Administrators: @Doug, @MightyRaze, @"Doc Sprocket", @Stretch44875
Moderators: @TheRainbowBoxer, @AllisKidD21




Back to top Go down
CornishMorgan
Skilled
Skilled


Join date : 2012-06-10
Posts : 302
Forum Rep : 0

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2013 8:39 am

@W1ldyOvvnZ wrote:
This sort of bugged me on the way home, i was thinking about it and all you need to do to steal another snowmobile is carry a piece of wire around 3" long with the insulation stripped on either end, im assuming this is the same with Lawn Tractors, ATVs, UTVs, etc. .Don't you think that they should have more of a security system on these? i tried it on my sisters sled(2010 Polaris Rush 600) and it worked too so its not because my sled is old. i know BRP has some kind of security system like most cars where the key sends a signal to the ECU that its the right key. Just thought it would be something nice to have to make you feel safe when your parking your vehicle you spent to much money on in some sketchy motel or something.

Modern cars have a basic RFID system build around the key switch, the key has a chip inside that's programed with a code, if the code is correct, it will allow you to start the engine. If its the wrong code it will normally disables the fuel entering the cylinders and some disable coil pack stopping the spark plugs from firing. You could put an RFID system on a tractor but it would be very very complex and you've have to know a good amount about electronics, you would also need a pre-programmed unit to to control the whole system.

Since most people in the UK have electric flymo mowers. A tractor is normally something that only rich people have for their huge gardens so leaving a tractor in a car park is not a good idea unless you come up with a way to stop people stealing since like 40% of the population of the UK would steal your grave if you gave them a chance, That's why im putting a security system on tractor.


Last edited by CornishMorgan on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
TheRainbowBoxer
Moderator
Moderator
TheRainbowBoxer

Age : 44
Join date : 2012-04-23
Posts : 1051
Forum Rep : 10
Location : Galion, OH

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2013 8:42 am

Yeah most gas powered toys are pretty easy to hot wire. Taking it a step further, almost all lawnmower keys are the exact same. Just about anything that will fit in the key slot will turn it too. Pretty low security.

_______________________________________________
Proud member of the Mower Cycle Gang... aka the "Mowrons!"

My build (Chaos is one of 3 built like this)
Chaos Build

The Mower Cycle Gang visited 1puglife in May 2014
Check out the pics and vids!

Haspin 2016 was a blast!  Check out pics and vids here
Haspin 2016 Media thread

Join us for the annual Mowron-fest at Haspin Acres!
Haspin Acres Rally 2019!

Check out my YouTube for more tractor action, my vlog, and my bus build!
TheRainbowBoxer on YouTube
Back to top Go down
CornishMorgan
Skilled
Skilled


Join date : 2012-06-10
Posts : 302
Forum Rep : 0

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2013 9:08 am

Yeah, being able to start something with a screwdriver isn't good.

Have a look for immobilizer systems and see it you can find any for small engines.
Back to top Go down
WellThatsSurprising
Skilled
Skilled
WellThatsSurprising

Age : 22
Join date : 2012-04-30
Posts : 407
Forum Rep : 1
Location : East Bethel, MN

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2013 9:18 am

When I put my tractor back together I will include a hidden switch to ground the coil. Also a battery cut-off key.

_______________________________________________
Hotwiring Vehicles 2afkj710

Quote :
[23:05:43] Doug Fackler : YOU ARE A ROUND CITRUS FRUIT WITH A JUICY INSIDE
[23:06:20] WellThatsSuprising : YOU BASTARD HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT
Back to top Go down
Stretch44875
Administrator
Administrator
Stretch44875

Age : 44
Join date : 2012-04-05
Posts : 956
Forum Rep : 8
Location : Mansfield, Ohio

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2013 9:24 am

Heck, ours are no security, no key, just a couple of switches and a start button.
Back to top Go down
W1ldyOvvnZ
Skilled
Skilled
W1ldyOvvnZ

Age : 23
Join date : 2011-12-06
Posts : 499
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Winchester, ON, Canada

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2013 9:06 pm

Hey CornishMorgan, you said about the RfID systems, if you were to bypass the key completely and just used the wire like i had to would it work or do you need a resistor or something(i was thinking it would read the resistance)?

i knew it was pretty easy to start a vehicle without a key but i was assuming you would need some knowledge...Also i checked further into it, i can use a key switch from any lawn tractor for my sled(it will plug right in and work right away). i was thinking if someone was to do a security system on a lawn tractor maybe double up the key switch and have one in a hidden place or camouflaged(make it look like a hood lock or something)
Back to top Go down
http://www.stat10.tk/
Doug
Administrator
Administrator
Doug

Age : 24
Join date : 2012-12-24
Posts : 2892
Forum Rep : 48
Location : Lebanon County, PA

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeTue Feb 05, 2013 9:31 pm

@W1ldyOvvnZ wrote:
Hey CornishMorgan, you said about the RfID systems, if you were to bypass the key completely and just used the wire like i had to would it work or do you need a resistor or something(i was thinking it would read the resistance)?

i knew it was pretty easy to start a vehicle without a key but i was assuming you would need some knowledge...Also i checked further into it, i can use a key switch from any lawn tractor for my sled(it will plug right in and work right away). i was thinking if someone was to do a security system on a lawn tractor maybe double up the key switch and have one in a hidden place or camouflaged(make it look like a hood lock or something)

Most cars nowadays have locking steering column and will only work if they key is inserted. RFID systems is like a keycard, itll read the key, meaning it will only start with the RFID key. If you were to make a key without the chip it wouldnt start.

Even hotwiring cars wont work. They will start, but there is a system in the car designed to lock up the steering wheel unless the correct key is inserted and in the run position.


Putting a hidden switch would work fine if you are concerned about some stealing your lawn mower. The issue is hiding it, and where in the system you would put it. Putting it in line with your key wouldnt work as someone could still cross terminals. You would have to put it in line with the battery cable or make the switch in line with the black wire on the motor.

_______________________________________________
Head Forum Administrator ** Chat Moderator ** Facebook Page Admin
ATLTF Facebook Page ** Chatbox ** How To Upload Pictures

_X_ FORUM ANNOUNCEMENTS _X_


Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@Doug" in your post!

Your ATLTF Staff:
Administrators: @Doug, @MightyRaze, @"Doc Sprocket", @Stretch44875
Moderators: @TheRainbowBoxer, @AllisKidD21




Back to top Go down
dangeroustoys56
Grand Master
Grand Master
dangeroustoys56

Age : 48
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 1726
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Florida, USA

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2013 1:22 pm

The person stealing a lawnmower wouldnt need to worry about keys, 2 of them could lift it up in a pickup truck and be gone . Or put it in neutral and wheel it away....


Believe me if someone wants something bad enough - theyll get it - years ago i was working in a plumbing shop in winter time , there was a gas welder out in an unsecured shed ( an apprentice left it out there) , theives cut the heavy duty chain with a hacksaw, wheeled it down the driveway, over a 15 foot tall snow pile ( gas welder weighs a good 500lbs or more) and was gone.


If you wanted to go high tech, install a security alarm - they have them for motorcycles.

Snowmobiles are the same way - you can hotwire them by unhooking the ign switch and jumping the solenoid ( those with electric start).

Pop and i went snowmobiling for years up north in the adirondaks , never had any issues with our sleds being taken , all we did was take the keys in with us and put the covers on at the motel - at places to eat, we just grabbed the keys.

I suppose if you wanted to keep the sled from being stolen, is to get a heavy duty chain/lock and tie it to a bike rack or pole ( tall pole- where they cant slide the chain over).


And stealing a car is a felony.....
Back to top Go down
TheRainbowBoxer
Moderator
Moderator
TheRainbowBoxer

Age : 44
Join date : 2012-04-23
Posts : 1051
Forum Rep : 10
Location : Galion, OH

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2013 1:34 pm

The "horn" on my tractor is a car alarm siren... it is hooked up through the seat. Not really effective as a anti-theft device, as it uses a relay that will eventually run the battery dead, but it is funny as poopie when someone sits on it when its on.

_______________________________________________
Proud member of the Mower Cycle Gang... aka the "Mowrons!"

My build (Chaos is one of 3 built like this)
Chaos Build

The Mower Cycle Gang visited 1puglife in May 2014
Check out the pics and vids!

Haspin 2016 was a blast!  Check out pics and vids here
Haspin 2016 Media thread

Join us for the annual Mowron-fest at Haspin Acres!
Haspin Acres Rally 2019!

Check out my YouTube for more tractor action, my vlog, and my bus build!
TheRainbowBoxer on YouTube
Back to top Go down
CornishMorgan
Skilled
Skilled


Join date : 2012-06-10
Posts : 302
Forum Rep : 0

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2013 2:16 pm

@W1ldyOvvnZ wrote:
Hey CornishMorgan, you said about the RfID systems, if you were to bypass the key completely and just used the wire like i had to would it work or do you need a resistor or something(i was thinking it would read the resistance)?

i knew it was pretty easy to start a vehicle without a key but i was assuming you would need some knowledge...Also i checked further into it, i can use a key switch from any lawn tractor for my sled(it will plug right in and work right away). i was thinking if someone was to do a security system on a lawn tractor maybe double up the key switch and have one in a hidden place or camouflaged(make it look like a hood lock or something)

No the key links two pins, the resistance would be tiny, so no you wouldn't need a resistor but you would need some way of activating the solenoid from the RFID and some way of the system knowing the code for the fobs or cards and allowing those codes but not any other.

You could put a hidden switch but the problem would be, as Doug said, finding somewhere on your tractor that hidden but you can still access without giving too much away.

A big chain would help but its not the best of things to use when its raining or cold.
Back to top Go down
TheRainbowBoxer
Moderator
Moderator
TheRainbowBoxer

Age : 44
Join date : 2012-04-23
Posts : 1051
Forum Rep : 10
Location : Galion, OH

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2013 2:37 pm

Its important to note that any kind of immobilizer would have to be in conjunction with an enclosure on the engine bay area so someone with a pair of wire cutters and a length of battery cable could not start it.

_______________________________________________
Proud member of the Mower Cycle Gang... aka the "Mowrons!"

My build (Chaos is one of 3 built like this)
Chaos Build

The Mower Cycle Gang visited 1puglife in May 2014
Check out the pics and vids!

Haspin 2016 was a blast!  Check out pics and vids here
Haspin 2016 Media thread

Join us for the annual Mowron-fest at Haspin Acres!
Haspin Acres Rally 2019!

Check out my YouTube for more tractor action, my vlog, and my bus build!
TheRainbowBoxer on YouTube
Back to top Go down
W1ldyOvvnZ
Skilled
Skilled
W1ldyOvvnZ

Age : 23
Join date : 2011-12-06
Posts : 499
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Winchester, ON, Canada

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2013 7:15 pm

i know the older Cadillac Escades you could just crank the steering wheel hard enough and unlock the steering wheel. And my father said someone thing about his Cadillac Fleetwood, his friend had the same car but blue and cloth interior and my father forgot his keys at home when he went to pick it up from a garage, the guy working on it kept the keys with him and my father was going to pick the keys up later but couldn't because the car would start on his friends keys but it would stall out after a certain speed.
Back to top Go down
http://www.stat10.tk/
Doug
Administrator
Administrator
Doug

Age : 24
Join date : 2012-12-24
Posts : 2892
Forum Rep : 48
Location : Lebanon County, PA

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2013 7:50 pm

@W1ldyOvvnZ wrote:
i know the older Cadillac Escades you could just crank the steering wheel hard enough and unlock the steering wheel. And my father said someone thing about his Cadillac Fleetwood, his friend had the same car but blue and cloth interior and my father forgot his keys at home when he went to pick it up from a garage, the guy working on it kept the keys with him and my father was going to pick the keys up later but couldn't because the car would start on his friends keys but it would stall out after a certain speed.

Sounds more like a computer error and bad hardware to me.

_______________________________________________
Head Forum Administrator ** Chat Moderator ** Facebook Page Admin
ATLTF Facebook Page ** Chatbox ** How To Upload Pictures

_X_ FORUM ANNOUNCEMENTS _X_


Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@Doug" in your post!

Your ATLTF Staff:
Administrators: @Doug, @MightyRaze, @"Doc Sprocket", @Stretch44875
Moderators: @TheRainbowBoxer, @AllisKidD21




Back to top Go down
W1ldyOvvnZ
Skilled
Skilled
W1ldyOvvnZ

Age : 23
Join date : 2011-12-06
Posts : 499
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Winchester, ON, Canada

Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitimeFri Feb 08, 2013 6:35 pm

Doug Fackler wrote:
@W1ldyOvvnZ wrote:
i know the older Cadillac Escades you could just crank the steering wheel hard enough and unlock the steering wheel. And my father said someone thing about his Cadillac Fleetwood, his friend had the same car but blue and cloth interior and my father forgot his keys at home when he went to pick it up from a garage, the guy working on it kept the keys with him and my father was going to pick the keys up later but couldn't because the car would start on his friends keys but it would stall out after a certain speed.

Sounds more like a computer error and bad hardware to me.
i was told it was because he didn't have the right key for the car, it did the same thing if you used the trunk key for the ignition.
Back to top Go down
http://www.stat10.tk/
Sponsored content




Hotwiring Vehicles Empty
PostSubject: Re: Hotwiring Vehicles   Hotwiring Vehicles Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Hotwiring Vehicles
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum :: Off Topic :: Off Topic-
Jump to: