All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum

Like riding lawn tractors through mud, woods, rocks, and snow? Then this is the place for you! Share your ideas, Post your projects and more!
 
PortalHomeFAQSearchMemberlistRegisterLog inCountdown Timer
Swing by the Chatroom anytime! Chat events held every Saturday, 8pm EST - whenever!
Welcome to the All Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum!
The 2018 Build Off is almost HALF WAY!! Click Here to view 2017 results!
ATLTF sticker shipments will resume soon! View them here, and keep up to date!
The forum is getting a minor face-lift. We hope you like it. Details here: Facelifting the Forum

Share | 
 

 my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.

Go down 
AuthorMessage
crazykid1994
Veteran
Veteran
avatar

Age : 23
Join date : 2013-03-18
Posts : 618
Forum Rep : 0
Location : loxahatchee, florida

PostSubject: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:00 am

i have a 4x4 or 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know. i probably wont build it as i have no need for one. but if you run an engine to a peerless 700 in the middle and put in a solid axle with a center diff (ill explain later) to shaft drive 2 or 3 fnr trannies whichever you want. or to solid axles. fnr would be better as they have diffs and you could remove the reverse gear from the 700 and help remove a weakness because the frn has reverse gear or you can run open diffs on 1" which would be more reliable. run RAGB front and rear to change the angle of the shaft to mount onto the tranny or sideways to run a chain for the axle also i thought someone could convert some golf kart axles to accept chain or even the ragb into the input on a golf kart axle. the center diff in the shaft is there to allow the front and rear tires to spin at will without binding around turns or high torque because it allows your front end to slow down to match your turn speed. some new awd cars have center diffs because it increases traction while turning by allowing all 4 tires to spin at different speeds. and running it off of 1 peerless 700 may seem weird and stressful on it but its not ment to go very fast. crawler or puller and could be used as a tow vehicle/recovery. you could even use another tranny sideways in place of the 700/driveline i mentioned that way you would save money. also if you run a sideways tranny you could run u joints and add in suspension as long as you design it right.
Back to top Go down
Doc Sprocket
Administrator
Administrator
avatar

Age : 45
Join date : 2013-04-21
Posts : 2907
Forum Rep : 11
Location : Ontario Canada

PostSubject: Re: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:43 pm

Some random thoughts-

*Any AWD vehicle (car/truck), Full-Time 4wd vehicle, or Part-Time 4wd with a FT option such as my Durango had, HAS a center diff. It's not a new-car thing, it's the common solution to driveline bind. Without, a road-going vehicle would have scary handling, insane tire wear, and be prone to breaking itself.

*The 700 won't be under as much stress as you might think. Being the first gearcase in the chain, the only torque multiplication or speed increase ahead of it is your pulley ratio. This is VERY easy to keep in check, by gearing downstream of it.

*It would be easier to visualize what you're talking about with a diagram or two. Got Paint?

*Part of decent design practise is resisting overcomplication. What you don't have, can't break. It makes things more compact, lighter, easier to service. KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) is words to live by. When I see 3,4, even 5 gearboxes of various types on such a machine, I am compelled to wonder what the great benefit is.

*We've seen a recent example boasting 150 forward speeds, complicated as heck, and not without it's problems. I'm not picking on anyone here, and it certainly IS unique, but not at all practical, IMHO. Even if the power source (engine) could only run at one single RPM, there STILL would not be a need for 150 possible gear combinations. If the ratios were to be examined all on a chart next to each other, you'd see many, many ratios that are too close to each other to be useful, or overlapping to a state of redundant redundancy. As a proof of concept, sure why not. Practical? No.

*A pitfall of gear reduction is torque multiplication. Speed and torque are inversely proportional. Double one, and you halve the other. If you have an overall gear reduction of say 25:1, this means that the components downstream of that reduction are subjected to 25 TIMES the initial torque. Suppose the engine can develop 20 Lbs/Ft. This means that the components downstream of the last gearset have to endure 500 Lbs/Ft!!!

*A typical factory-stock lawn tractor will have an overall reduction ratio in first gear of about 20:1 or so. As you all know, this makes for a very slow transport speed, and a lot of grunt. To get that very same tractor to 50MPH would require an overall redux ratio of about 4:1. (Assuming engine remains governed to 3600RPM. So- if one were to attempt to build a tractor that could both crawl and race, your overall redux ratios must span from 20:1 to 4:1. My quick calcs reveal that a SINGLE Peerless 700 (or even a common transaxle like the 800) can span the range from 18:1 to 4:1 all by itself. Of course, you can shift this range either way with pulley/sprocket selections. So why the need for all the extra complexity?

_______________________________________________
***Get YOUR official "Doc Locked, And Ready To Rock!" Stickers by clicking here!***
***Official Sprocket's Garage vinyl graphics and tees for sale HERE!***

Put down the wrench, and come out with your hands up!-Doc "Tranny Crusher" Sprocket, ATLTF Forum Admin, Thinkerer and Tinkerer, and all-around good dood. Wink

Gen. Mayhem- http://www.atltf.com/t2597-general-mayhem-race-tractor
MULE- http://www.atltf.com/t2153-lawn-boy-utltv
MULEII- http://www.atltf.com/t3328-1970-john-deere-112-the-beginnings-of-mule-ii
MULEIII http://www.atltf.com/t4263-mule3-brainstorming-ideas-etc#58287
Wrench, Wheel, Wreck, Repeat...
Back to top Go down
crazykid1994
Veteran
Veteran
avatar

Age : 23
Join date : 2013-03-18
Posts : 618
Forum Rep : 0
Location : loxahatchee, florida

PostSubject: Re: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:02 pm

that is a really good opinion on my idea. lol. and a good use of this website. than again it is just an idea for anyone that needed a start somewhere you know. im still lost on converting it over from the drive shaft to axles unless it where to have golf kart axles. which wouldnt be to bad of an idea and cut back on costs greatly. it would also increase the wheel span greatly. and could be used with suspension by adding in u joints. just a quick jot down of what was going through my head anyways. it only gets better with input
Back to top Go down
Doc Sprocket
Administrator
Administrator
avatar

Age : 45
Join date : 2013-04-21
Posts : 2907
Forum Rep : 11
Location : Ontario Canada

PostSubject: Re: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:04 pm

RAGB's of various descriptions can be sourced from mower junkyards, and other places too.

And yes- batting ideas around is a good thing. Leads to solutions!

_______________________________________________
***Get YOUR official "Doc Locked, And Ready To Rock!" Stickers by clicking here!***
***Official Sprocket's Garage vinyl graphics and tees for sale HERE!***

Put down the wrench, and come out with your hands up!-Doc "Tranny Crusher" Sprocket, ATLTF Forum Admin, Thinkerer and Tinkerer, and all-around good dood. Wink

Gen. Mayhem- http://www.atltf.com/t2597-general-mayhem-race-tractor
MULE- http://www.atltf.com/t2153-lawn-boy-utltv
MULEII- http://www.atltf.com/t3328-1970-john-deere-112-the-beginnings-of-mule-ii
MULEIII http://www.atltf.com/t4263-mule3-brainstorming-ideas-etc#58287
Wrench, Wheel, Wreck, Repeat...
Back to top Go down
crazykid1994
Veteran
Veteran
avatar

Age : 23
Join date : 2013-03-18
Posts : 618
Forum Rep : 0
Location : loxahatchee, florida

PostSubject: Re: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:08 pm

if you used an 800 sideways also and put ujoints on the ends of the shafts and used that point as pivots for golf kart axles that could be a hell of a machine in my opinion.the only thing is the front end would need a 4 link style setup as would the rear.
Back to top Go down
crazykid1994
Veteran
Veteran
avatar

Age : 23
Join date : 2013-03-18
Posts : 618
Forum Rep : 0
Location : loxahatchee, florida

PostSubject: Re: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:15 pm

another issue i just thought of is steering.
stumped again
Back to top Go down
Doc Sprocket
Administrator
Administrator
avatar

Age : 45
Join date : 2013-04-21
Posts : 2907
Forum Rep : 11
Location : Ontario Canada

PostSubject: Re: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:21 pm

Steering's not too complex. One could use the u-joints, brackets, knuckles, etc from an all-wheel-steer transaxle. Either use the whole transaxle, or remove them and scab them onto a simple FNR (same shaft size, no problem) or even adapt all that stuff to work with a modified live axle, depending on what you need to accomplish.

A 700 turned sideways eliminates the center diff (and DOES have an output stub on both ends) if you wanted to build a pure offroad or mud machine. For that, you could even have a 700 (properly mounted) with chains running front and rear. Rear would be a live axle, front could be the above-mentioned modified live axle.

_______________________________________________
***Get YOUR official "Doc Locked, And Ready To Rock!" Stickers by clicking here!***
***Official Sprocket's Garage vinyl graphics and tees for sale HERE!***

Put down the wrench, and come out with your hands up!-Doc "Tranny Crusher" Sprocket, ATLTF Forum Admin, Thinkerer and Tinkerer, and all-around good dood. Wink

Gen. Mayhem- http://www.atltf.com/t2597-general-mayhem-race-tractor
MULE- http://www.atltf.com/t2153-lawn-boy-utltv
MULEII- http://www.atltf.com/t3328-1970-john-deere-112-the-beginnings-of-mule-ii
MULEIII http://www.atltf.com/t4263-mule3-brainstorming-ideas-etc#58287
Wrench, Wheel, Wreck, Repeat...
Back to top Go down
superinventor1
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
avatar

Age : 22
Join date : 2013-10-31
Posts : 11
Forum Rep : 0
Location : nicholson pa

PostSubject: Re: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:24 pm

its not a bad idea but a little hard to understand if you can draw a little pic of what you mean I think I got the theory just not how it be put togerther
Back to top Go down
Doc Sprocket
Administrator
Administrator
avatar

Age : 45
Join date : 2013-04-21
Posts : 2907
Forum Rep : 11
Location : Ontario Canada

PostSubject: Re: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:26 pm

Funny guy! Laughing 

_______________________________________________
***Get YOUR official "Doc Locked, And Ready To Rock!" Stickers by clicking here!***
***Official Sprocket's Garage vinyl graphics and tees for sale HERE!***

Put down the wrench, and come out with your hands up!-Doc "Tranny Crusher" Sprocket, ATLTF Forum Admin, Thinkerer and Tinkerer, and all-around good dood. Wink

Gen. Mayhem- http://www.atltf.com/t2597-general-mayhem-race-tractor
MULE- http://www.atltf.com/t2153-lawn-boy-utltv
MULEII- http://www.atltf.com/t3328-1970-john-deere-112-the-beginnings-of-mule-ii
MULEIII http://www.atltf.com/t4263-mule3-brainstorming-ideas-etc#58287
Wrench, Wheel, Wreck, Repeat...
Back to top Go down
Ariens YT11
Veteran
Veteran
avatar

Age : 21
Join date : 2012-10-31
Posts : 743
Forum Rep : 0
Location : The Wyo-Braska Panhandle

PostSubject: Re: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:07 pm

@Doc Sprocket wrote:
Steering's not too complex. One could use the u-joints, brackets, knuckles, etc from an all-wheel-steer transaxle. Either use the whole transaxle, or remove them and scab them onto a simple FNR (same shaft size, no problem) or even adapt all that stuff to work with a modified live axle, depending on what you need to accomplish.

A 700 turned sideways eliminates the center diff (and DOES have an output stub on both ends) if you wanted to build a pure offroad or mud machine. For that, you could even have a 700 (properly mounted) with chains running front and rear. Rear would be a live axle, front could be the above-mentioned modified live axle.
Doc you just gave me a Idea!!!
Back to top Go down
http://pmwcm.forumotion.com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.   

Back to top Go down
 
my 6x6 idea for anyone that wants to know.
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» I got a wild idea in my head
» quad bike for my girlfriend? not a good idea!
» kayak good or bad idea?
» Direct drive idea.
» A new idea for a riding mower engine?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum :: Technical Forum :: Drivetrain & Brake Tech :: General Drivetrain Topics-
Jump to: