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 Lifted 4x4

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GenevaCustoms
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:58 am

@Thunderdivine wrote:
Ye so get 3 transaxles, eliminate all the clutter above with one transaxle mounted sideways, down to two FNR or similar. and use heavyduty hydraulic hose as the u joints. You can probably find some broken ones somewhere.
Thought about it but if it was unlocked it may or may not spin both axles the same way, and if it was locked I'd have to put one of the trannys backwards. And a tranny is longer and woukd put a harder angle on my joints, I'm makeing the spider gear shafts as short as possible but I've also found a right angle gearbox with two outputs... Might use that
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:00 pm

@redzz02 wrote:
ive seen those trannys in rear steers with the knuckles aready on them was thinking about doing something similar to what you plan o do here
I thought you already made one lol and ud have to get two rear steer trannys and i coukdnt even find one lol
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:16 pm

@GenevaCustoms wrote:
@Thunderdivine wrote:
Ye so get 3 transaxles, eliminate all the clutter above with one transaxle mounted sideways, down to two FNR or similar. and use heavyduty hydraulic hose as the u joints. You can probably find some broken ones somewhere.
Thought about it but if it was unlocked it may or may not spin both axles the same way, and if it was locked I'd have to put one of the trannys backwards. And a tranny is longer and woukd put a harder angle on my joints, I'm makeing the spider gear shafts as short as possible but I've also found a right angle gearbox with two outputs... Might use that

It's not longer if you cut it  Razz 


3 Shaft - 1:1 Gearbox


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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:43 pm

@Thunderdivine wrote:
@GenevaCustoms wrote:
@Thunderdivine wrote:
Ye so get 3 transaxles, eliminate all the clutter above with one transaxle mounted sideways, down to two FNR or similar. and use heavyduty hydraulic hose as the u joints. You can probably find some broken ones somewhere.
Thought about it but if it was unlocked it may or may not spin both axles the same way, and if it was locked I'd have to put one of the trannys backwards. And a tranny is longer and woukd put a harder angle on my joints, I'm makeing the spider gear shafts as short as possible but I've also found a right angle gearbox with two outputs... Might use that

It's not longer if you cut it  Razz 


3 Shaft - 1:1 Gearbox

That's kinda whqt I want but I found one a lil cheaper then the ones I found that looks like that
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:58 pm

and also your "transfer" case needs to spin in the same direction not opposite, and you say your drawing isnt to scale, but no matter your placement for you joints will be a 45* your trying to make up for a 90* right angle from tranny input to "transfer" case, the u joints will be at 45* no matter where the placement is
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:10 pm

Ok I get the 45* angle now, didn't do very good in geometry... But the transfer case axles goin to the diffs should spin opposite if I want both axles facing forward
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:12 pm

And I could prob make that 90* angle to like a 70 by tilting the trannys input toward the transfer case
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:17 pm

@GenevaCustoms wrote:
And I could prob make that 90* angle to like a 70 by tilting the trannys input toward the transfer case

And to 60* so 30* x 30* if lowering the center gearbox....

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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:26 pm

@Thunderdivine wrote:
@GenevaCustoms wrote:
And I could prob make that 90* angle to like a 70 by tilting the trannys input toward the transfer case

And to 60* so 30* x 30* if lowering the center gearbox....
yup will prob lower it some
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:28 pm

@GenevaCustoms wrote:

They need to counter rotate, to keep the trannys the same direction.

Just wanted to make sure you thunk of that.

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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:40 pm

@Doc Sprocket wrote:
@GenevaCustoms wrote:

They need to counter rotate, to keep the trannys the same direction.  

Just wanted to make sure you thunk of that.
Haha thanks, and it would have been funny if I didn't and got all excited for the first test run and it... Doesn't move lol one step forward one step back
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:37 pm

the spider gears i had planned on using, but im leaning towards droppin 100-150$ on a right angle gearbox with two outputs, only because it will be sealed and not open to the elements.

wered it go lol

its all in pieces




washin the dirt and grease off all the stuff
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:38 pm

it would have only been one spider gear for the input.. that was just a locker so i couldn't take one of them off right then lol
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PostSubject: Lifted 4x4   Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:03 pm

I tore my first murray apart it looked like that.......I had to watch ff's vids until I figured it out.
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:17 am

Oh OK... you're using the parts out of a differential to split the power forward and back, not the whole differential..... I read spider gears as using the whole assembly. My bad.

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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:04 pm


Have you though about this? use a standard five speed mower tranny with diff locked as the angle box, they basically do the same thing. and instead of u joints, just flip the varidrive trannys 90 degrees so the outputs are horizontal and facing the axles from the center tranny. will have to run one of the varidrives in reverse. food for though. btw obviously my paint skills suck
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:22 am

@Creepycrawler wrote:

Have you though about this? use a standard five speed mower tranny with diff locked as the angle box, they basically do the same thing. and instead of u joints, just flip the varidrive trannys 90 degrees so the outputs are horizontal and facing the axles from the center tranny. will have to run one of the varidrives in reverse. food for though. btw obviously my paint skills suck
Yea, I like all these different suggestions, with all of them we should get a good functioning design.
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:44 am

That's not a bad idea, but I would STILL use 2 U-joints per shaft. Common engineering sense dictates it. Any misalignment, vibration, or frame torsion (flex) will immediately break something if you ignore this. It would also be very wise to engineer a slip joint into each shaft.

Since it hasn't been mentioned- you'd want to lock the diff in the "transfer case".

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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:35 am

@Doc Sprocket wrote:
That's not a bad idea, but I would STILL use 2 U-joints per shaft. Common engineering sense dictates it. Any misalignment, vibration, or frame torsion (flex) will immediately break something if you ignore this. It would also be very wise to engineer a slip joint into each shaft.

Since it hasn't been mentioned- you'd want to lock the diff in the "transfer case".
If I used an actuall transmission for the trabsfercase I would have to lock it, therefor haveing to put one of the trannsmissions in the opposite direction. I will probly just use a right angle gearbox with two outputs. And I've sourced a few different ideas for the driveshafts, u joints, and the slipper shafts. Must have the slightest bit of slippage or it will bind. Trying to think of eeverythinf before I buy anything
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:43 am

@TheRainbowBoxer wrote:
The drawback I can see here is that if you lose traction with one wheel, your whole setup will stop moving.  With a differential (spider gears) between front and back, and another at each axle, one wheel slips and you'd be stuck.

Already touched on that, Doc... ya dang thunder theif Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:24 am

And I'm here still here worrying about he knuckles.....

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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:13 pm

you seem very reluctant to run one tranny in reverse.... just curious as to why? any other transmission I would agree with you because you would always be running power through the reverse chain, which is usually the weak link. however with those varidrive rearends, they use dual ring gears off of a shared pinion, so "reverse" is just choosing which ring gear supplies power to the counter shaft. so it is just as strong in either direction, unlike a "normal" transaxle
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:24 pm

@Creepycrawler wrote:
you seem very reluctant to run one tranny in reverse.... just curious as to why? any other transmission I would agree with you because you would always be running power through the reverse chain, which is usually the weak link. however with those varidrive rearends, they use dual ring gears off of a shared pinion, so "reverse" is just choosing which ring gear supplies power to the counter shaft. so it is just as strong in either direction, unlike a "normal" transaxle

Agreed- and in addition, (unlike some gearboxes) the gears are NOT helical cut, they are straight cut. So none of those negative effects are a concern either.

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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:49 pm

so im back on this thread because the way im going to be doing it is against the build off rules. im using a suzuki 160, it has 5 gears, and a reverse, witch is on a separate shift shaft, i like it better. but main idea is to run a short chain from engine to jack shaft. the jack shaft will have the sprocket receiving power from the engine, and the sprocket going down to the REAR axle. it will also have a gear, kind of like a bull gear. then there will be another jack shaft, same as the other one but only have a sprocket going to the FRONT axle. it has to be able to move about an inch im guessing to engage and disengage the GEARS. (this will be how i lock the front end into gear so its not all time 4x4) im gonna have to use all wheel steer transmissions knuckles for the front end because there the best fit in my opinion. im not going to lift it as high as i originally planned because i will probably be going around 25 mpg now with the suzuki. the only thing im worried about is if the chains will be to long. if they are ill have to add some more jack shafts. heres the sketch of 2x4 to 4x4 and the side view as of how the lift will be built i think.
i need suggestions on the damn chains! lol

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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:52 pm

crap, just thought about it. i may need a gear in between the two shafts otherwise the front end will travel the opposite direction of the rear  Shocked 
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PostSubject: Re: Lifted 4x4    Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:02 pm

What's against the rules? the suzuki motor? I'm sure they have a weedeater in Japan with a Suzuki engine on it lol

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