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 Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.

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Stretch44875
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PostSubject: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:17 pm

Video of us locking up a 820 the cheap way.  Need someone to go romp this design, and see what happens! If it was to fail, it would stay inside the diff, and not ruin the rest of the transaxle.

/watch?v=cPnbZMGJucU
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CornShuck4CE
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:19 pm

Anybody know where i can get some spider gears for my 820 or could i buy some from someone 820 are hard to find where i live.
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Stretch44875
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:51 pm

I've got a couple extra sets. 15.00 plus shipping.
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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:47 pm

Well done. Good, cheap, weld-free solutions are always appealing and especially useful to those just starting out!

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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:32 pm

neat idea.
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CornShuck4CE
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:59 pm

Ight den be da shippin to come alabamal. A flat rate USPS. Couple bucks or so. Do i need to pm you or email. With adress how at work.
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:01 pm

Iv welded several transaxels. But for some reason i cant bring myself to weld this one. Id like to by the locker but i aint got 80 bucks layen around.
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:15 am

Pm is fine.
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:13 pm

Is it possible to put 4 extra gears in there, instead of just the two extra?

Seems to me that it would be stronger and less prone to breakage, if you could somehow work them into there.
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:12 pm

I think you could get 2 more in ther (4 in all). Your right would be stronger. I did this style locker in my 820 still goin strong. But i do notice a lil slack in the diff 4 gears wouldent chang that. The only way to get rid of all the slack would be to dock lock it or solid axel. But this is a good fast an cheap salution for someone with no welder or just startin out.
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:03 pm

@CornShuck4CE wrote:
I think you could get 2 more in ther (4 in all). Your right would be stronger. I did this style locker in my 820 still goin strong. But i do notice a lil slack in the diff 4 gears wouldent chang that. The only way to get rid of all the slack would be to dock lock it or solid axel. But this is a good fast an cheap salution for someone with no welder or just startin out.

CornShuck, you can always weld the locker spiders together. They wouldn't be bearing the load of just welding them to the pin.  What I mean is weld the two additional spiders to the original spiders then that may take up some slack and you won't have to worry about cracking them.  

BTW, Doc-Lockers also requires strong welds. two pins welded to a shaft. Those welds probably hold more than the welds on the regular pin style. Those welds practically hold your final drive together.  IF your welds on a pin style break you still have a sorta differential, depending on how she blows.  With a Doc-Locker you loose those pins and your mode of transportation is done. Maybe I'm wrong idk lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:34 pm

The problem iv had with welding the diff aint the weld braking its the gear itself breaking. Heating the gear changes the structure of the metal gear causing it to be mor brittle. The axel of a doc lock and pin is a difforent metal structure than the gear. Those welds be it as good as any other still makes the two metals act difforent. 
Thanks LMM i may be wrong but thats where my proplem lyes.
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:02 pm

@CornShuck4CE wrote:
The problem iv had with welding the diff aint the weld braking its the gear itself breaking. Heating the gear changes the structure of the metal gear causing it to be mor brittle. The axel of a doc lock and pin is a difforent metal structure than the gear. Those welds be it as good as any other still makes the two metals act difforent. 
Thanks LMM i may be wrong but thats where my proplem lyes.

True, PLUS- Keep in mind that the reason that welded diffs often fail, is the fact that you're not even dealing with standard, forged, mild steel. MOST diff gears are made from sintered steel. It is a manufacturing process that comes out far cheaper to produce, but sintered does not weld very well. Basically, instead of steel being melted down, forged (or cast) and then machined to spec, it is instead powdered, and then pressed into a mold of the finished product. The end result welds quite crappily. Not because you can't melt it, but because when you DO melt it, the melt is adjacent to more powdered poo. It's the dissimilarity that tends to be the failure point.

@LAWN MOWER MUDDER wrote:


BTW, Doc-Lockers also requires strong welds. two pins welded to a shaft. Those welds probably hold more than the welds on the regular pin style. Those welds practically hold your final drive together.  IF your welds on a pin style break you still have a sorta differential, depending on how she blows.  With a Doc-Locker you loose those pins and your mode of transportation is done. Maybe I'm wrong idk lol. [/color]
Also true. You're zapping 5/8" to 3/4". You need a strong machine, and some skill as a welder. Like other "alternate" locking methods (the Zinc Locker comes to mind), it's not for everyone. It IS preferable to welding spiders though. I've been beating it like it owes me money, and it continues to hold.

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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:48 am

Gotta say I am a fan of the double broached straight axle idea someone had a while back. I just got a straight axle 820 haven't cracked it open but pretty sure it's broached.
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:10 am

@Doc Sprocket wrote:
@CornShuck4CE wrote:
The problem iv had with welding the diff aint the weld braking its the gear itself breaking. Heating the gear changes the structure of the metal gear causing it to be mor brittle. The axel of a doc lock and pin is a difforent metal structure than the gear. Those welds be it as good as any other still makes the two metals act difforent. 
Thanks LMM i may be wrong but thats where my proplem lyes.

True, PLUS- Keep in mind that the reason that welded diffs often fail, is the fact that you're not even dealing with standard, forged, mild steel. MOST diff gears are made from sintered steel. It is a manufacturing process that comes out far cheaper to produce, but sintered does not weld very well. Basically, instead of steel being melted down, forged (or cast) and then machined to spec, it is instead powdered, and then pressed into a mold of the finished product. The end result welds quite crappily.

I think the pins itself are made from sintered steel, not the gears, but i could be wrong.

Heres what it looks like broken, not on the weld, but the heated, brittle material right next to the weld. Foote axle:



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Moose
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:37 am

one way around that would be getting them heated up and rehardened if you want to alleviate some of the stress
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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:14 pm

@Moose wrote:
one way around that would be getting them heated up and rehardened if you want to alleviate some of the stress

If we're still talking about sintered parts, then no.

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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:23 am

Boring, broaching keyways, and using a straight axle is what we do, and is unbreakable. This method is a cheap and easy way to lock.
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:15 pm

@Stretch44875 wrote:
Boring, broaching keyways, and using a straight axle is what we do, and is unbreakable.  This method is a cheap and easy way to lock.

Is there a nice pictorial of this in detail somewhere?
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:43 am

I'd check our build threads, some pics in there. Also have a video of the transaxle that shows it.

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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:59 pm

@Stretch44875 wrote:
I'd check our build threads, some pics in there.  Also have a video of the transaxle that shows it.

Thank you. That explained it pretty good!

I am subscribed. I guess I should spend more time having a look. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:58 pm

Strech, do you have any idea on why only 5 will not engage all the way on the 820's?
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:18 pm

@Ariens YT11 wrote:
Strech, do you have any idea on why only 5 will not engage all the way on the 820's?

Shift keys?
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:56 pm

@LAWN MOWER MUDDER wrote:
@Ariens YT11 wrote:
Strech, do you have any idea on why only 5 will not engage all the way on the 820's?

Shift keys?

I'm thinking something is bent inside but I don't want to tear into it yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Lock a 820 peerless with spider gears.   Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:06 pm

could be a problem with shift linkage
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