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jamcco
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PostSubject: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 8:09 pm

so the other day i noticed my oil had a lot of gas in it. i went to start the tractor and noticed that the engine was hydro locked due to gas leaking into the cylinder. this explains my oil being a mess. so i bought a manual fuel shut off valve and eveything for an oil change. i did the oil change today and i start the tractor up. it smokes a little and i jjust assumed it was because i made a mess changing the oil. I put around the yard a bit and notice that at idle the engine smokes white smoke. when you give the engine some throttle it stops smoking. after you release the throttle it will start to smoke shortly after. i checked the oil and it says i didnt put to much in (the owners manual read 2 quarts). so my question is why is the tractor smoking. are the rings worn and causing blow by or what? the engine runs beautifully but it smokes.
Information.
engine: Kohler 17 hp single Model number: CV490s
oil: 2 quarts of 5w 30
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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 8:13 pm

To begin with, fix your carburetor. The reason you had fuel contamination in the oil is due to the float valve. Either the needle or seat were gunked up and not sealing, or the float is misadjusted or defective.

All the excess oil may have migrated into the carb and hopefully the smoking condition will dissipate.

However- diluted oil is bad news and may have caused some damage. If it doesn't go away, you may have damaged your rings and or scored the cylinder.

Meanwhile- assume nothing. Read the disptick, rather than assume you put in the right amount of oil.

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tanis
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 8:24 pm

@Doc Sprocket wrote:
To begin with, fix your carburetor. The reason you had fuel contamination in the oil is due to the float valve. Either the needle or seat were gunked up and not sealing, or the float is misadjusted or defective.

All the excess oil may have migrated into the carb and hopefully the smoking condition will dissipate.

However- diluted oil is bad news and may have caused some damage. If it doesn't go away, you may have damaged your rings and or scored the cylinder.

Meanwhile- assume nothing. Read the disptick, rather than assume you put in the right amount of oil.

The diluted oil might be because of the hydro lock mine did the same thing when my seal broke on my shutoff valve. Mine filled the entire cylinder head and seeped into the oil. flushed the system and its been fine since smoked for a few seconds and cleared out
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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 8:32 pm

I have to disagree. Staunchly. If your carburetor is working properly, the shutoff valve should be entirely invisible. That's what your fuel inlet valve (float valve) is for...

And the fuel-diluted oil is not caused by a hydrolock, a hydrolock can result from dilution. A cylinder full of oil does not introduce large volumes of fuel into the oil.

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MULEIII http://www.atltf.com/t4263-mule3-brainstorming-ideas-etc#58287
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Last edited by Doc Sprocket on Thu May 15, 2014 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tanis
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 8:36 pm

@Doc Sprocket wrote:
I have to disagree. Staunchly. If your carburetor is working properly, the shutoff valve should be entirely invisible. That's what your fuel inlet valve (float valve) is for...

And the fuel-diluted oil is not caused by a hydrolock, a hydrolock can result from dilution. A cylinder full of oil does not introduce large volumes of fuel into the oil.

i have a plastic not a carb solenoid and when you dilute the oil with gas and flush all of the oil out of it it breaks the seal on the rings causing the oil ti go into the cylinder
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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 8:47 pm

Who said anything about a solenoid? I certainly did not! Again I say- if the barb;s working properly, a shutoff valve is moot.

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WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Facebo12
Put down the wrench, and come out with your hands up!-Doc "Tranny Crusher" Sprocket, ATLTF Forum Admin, Thinkerer and Tinkerer, and all-around good dood. Wink

Gen. Mayhem- http://www.atltf.com/t2597-general-mayhem-race-tractor
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MULEII- http://www.atltf.com/t3328-1970-john-deere-112-the-beginnings-of-mule-ii
MULEIII http://www.atltf.com/t4263-mule3-brainstorming-ideas-etc#58287
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willis923
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 8:48 pm

no, no it does not. gas has no affect on rings. the lack of lubrication will simply cause the walls of the cylinder to become scored, as well a damage every single bearing in the engine. Now, with that said, i 2nd doc on fixing your carb. adding an inline shutoff is NOT a fix to the problem. you shouldnt need one, hence why our carbs have this magical thing called a float and needle valve. What i suspect is happening, is since your crankcase filled with oil, the PCV breather to the carb took a drink of it, soaking your air filter, and letting oil into the intake. Its probably still got a degree of blowby coming out the breather. Also, if it soaked your air filter, thats a good possibility of where the cause of your smoke is

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-1974 bolens 1055 (Rolling Thunder)
-1989 Craftsman GT6000 (Blockhead)
-2004 Ford F-250 super duty FX4
-1999 Ford F-350 Superduty 4x4 7.3 Powerstroke


Lt wrote:
Feel free to try... Dont let anything but fear and common sense stop you. 


WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Pbucket

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jamcco
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:03 pm

i'll check all of this tomorrow. ive pulled the carburetor solenoid out and it works fine the float moves freely and is hole free. the needle valve is gunk free and fine. ill check the air cleaner tm and ill check the oil and evey other thing that has been posted in this thread tm. no such thing as being to careful
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tanis
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:11 pm

alright first of all i might know what the heck im taking about, think about that. i have been a mechanic for 3 year and i also got my dads thoughts which hes been a mechanic for over 30 years so i think he might have a clue what in the heck l he's talking about, and i also found out that jamcco father told him exactly the same thing that i and my father have said
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willis923
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:14 pm

settle down. we never said you dont know what youre talking about. im sure you do. What you said isnt 100% correct. besides, i was only giving other sugggestions as to why its burning oil. no reason to get defensive

_______________________________________________
-1974 bolens 1055 (Rolling Thunder)
-1989 Craftsman GT6000 (Blockhead)
-2004 Ford F-250 super duty FX4
-1999 Ford F-350 Superduty 4x4 7.3 Powerstroke


Lt wrote:
Feel free to try... Dont let anything but fear and common sense stop you. 


WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Pbucket

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tanis
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:16 pm

@willis923 wrote:
settle down. we never said you dont know what youre talking about. im sure you do. What you said isnt 100% correct. besides, i was only giving other sugggestions as to why its burning oil. no reason to get defensive

thanks i am pretty much being called a liar just in other words so thanks for clearing some of it up
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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:19 pm

Now, before this turns into a total pile of crap... Exactly who is calling who a liar and why?

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WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Facebo12
Put down the wrench, and come out with your hands up!-Doc "Tranny Crusher" Sprocket, ATLTF Forum Admin, Thinkerer and Tinkerer, and all-around good dood. Wink

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MULE- http://www.atltf.com/t2153-lawn-boy-utltv
MULEII- http://www.atltf.com/t3328-1970-john-deere-112-the-beginnings-of-mule-ii
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tanis
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:36 pm

@Doc Sprocket wrote:
Now, before this turns into a total pile of crap... Exactly who is calling who a liar and why?
hes figure out whats probably wrong so its doent matter
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:38 pm

Oil/fuel mix might have leaked into the exhaust. It has happened to me before.

Gas will not break seals on engine rings or crank rings. If anything it will help to clean crud from behind the piston because of its solvent qualities.

EDIT: I would also change the oil a second time as it may have picked up more gasoline from the block walls.

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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:46 pm

i think the problem is either the rings or oil in the PCV. i havent found the problem yet. thanks for the advice, hopefully this will get me to the point of knowing if it is worth fixing or not. All i know at this point is that the hydrolock was BAD for the engine, thats in simple terms. ill have to get back to this tomorrow.



Last edited by jamcco on Thu May 15, 2014 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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willis923
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:48 pm

Doug Fackler wrote:
Oil/fuel mix might have leaked into the exhaust. It has happened to me before.

that slipped my mind. thats happened to me before too

_______________________________________________
-1974 bolens 1055 (Rolling Thunder)
-1989 Craftsman GT6000 (Blockhead)
-2004 Ford F-250 super duty FX4
-1999 Ford F-350 Superduty 4x4 7.3 Powerstroke


Lt wrote:
Feel free to try... Dont let anything but fear and common sense stop you. 


WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Pbucket

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jamcco
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:51 pm

@willis923 wrote:
Doug Fackler wrote:
Oil/fuel mix might have leaked into the exhaust. It has happened to me before.

that slipped my mind. thats happened to me before too
yah and from what i know it takes a while for oil?fuel to burn out of mufflers
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 9:56 pm

hmm... if it was REALLY hydrolocked, and you forced it, you probably could have cracked a ring, but i doubt it

_______________________________________________
-1974 bolens 1055 (Rolling Thunder)
-1989 Craftsman GT6000 (Blockhead)
-2004 Ford F-250 super duty FX4
-1999 Ford F-350 Superduty 4x4 7.3 Powerstroke


Lt wrote:
Feel free to try... Dont let anything but fear and common sense stop you. 


WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Pbucket

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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 10:02 pm

oh no this wasnt that bad
well it was bad for the engine
but let me explain for a bit
so i go to start the tractor and i notice that the engine wont turn a full rotation and gas came out of the exhaust. i took the spark plug off and then turned the engine slowly by hand only enough to clear the cylinder of gas. i dont think this did as much internal damage as it could of done if i tried to crank the engine over with the gas in the cylinder like it was then i drained it of all of the oil/gas. i then pulled off the carb bowl and float to fix it from leaking anymore. i then bought the manual shut off as a "safety" device.

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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 10:08 pm

ok, great to hear. i bet its just residual burning off in the muffler. run it WOT for a while and see if it clears up

_______________________________________________
-1974 bolens 1055 (Rolling Thunder)
-1989 Craftsman GT6000 (Blockhead)
-2004 Ford F-250 super duty FX4
-1999 Ford F-350 Superduty 4x4 7.3 Powerstroke


Lt wrote:
Feel free to try... Dont let anything but fear and common sense stop you. 


WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Pbucket

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jamcco
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 10:21 pm

i have my fingers crossed that it is residual burning out of the cylinder and muffler and everywhere Sad 
i will have to run a couple quarts of oil through it to pickup all of the gas and crud in the crank case
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willis923
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 10:54 pm

certainly couldnt hurt any

_______________________________________________
-1974 bolens 1055 (Rolling Thunder)
-1989 Craftsman GT6000 (Blockhead)
-2004 Ford F-250 super duty FX4
-1999 Ford F-350 Superduty 4x4 7.3 Powerstroke


Lt wrote:
Feel free to try... Dont let anything but fear and common sense stop you. 


WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Pbucket

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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 10:58 pm

the road bumps in projects though, i just finished the 4 link and was getting everything up and ready to go for the first real romp. All part of the hobby
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 11:44 pm

another thing that rarely get brought up is the valve guides, they eventually wear out like the cylinder and end up leaking small amounts of oil into the engine.
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PostSubject: Re: WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING?   WHYS MY KOHLER SMOKING? Icon_minitimeFri May 16, 2014 6:25 am

I wouldnt worry about it too mich yet. It took almost an hour for oil to clear out of my muffler when I rolled my Craftsman. If it keeps up after a week or so you have a different problem.

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