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 Direct drive idea.

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Angchor
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PostSubject: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:51 am


Has anyone ever tried setting an engine directly over a transmission, then coupling them with an electric clutch?

In place of the clutch pedal you could put a normally on, pushbutton switch. Push the button with your foot, and the clutch would disengage between the engine and trans, and you can shift gears. Let go, and it re-engages.

You'd have to have some kind of safety. A way to disengage the clutch and leave it disengaged. Etc. Probably just as simple as a toggle on the dashboard.
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GenevaCustoms
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:21 am

I haven't ever thought of that but sounds like it would work pretty good. I don't kno much about the eletric clutches and all the weight would be at rear haha I always like to hear the new ideas people have on here
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:58 am

GC is right i like hearing new ideas but isnt that like a rear engine rider the motor in the back
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:00 am

Yea it would be but shouldn't have any belt slippage I geuss haha
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:03 am

there has been talk of this topic on here before. im not sure if it ever happened though. i know that there were several problems that were brought up, like the abuse the transaxle would have to endure due to the hard engage. It wouldnt be like a manual clutch where you can ease it out, its a on or off type deal. there was also the question of- what happens if it gets wet or submerged. will it still work, and function correctly? or will it short out and do bad things, leaving you stranded?
also, on top of the transaxle abuse, how would the clutch itsself fare? would IT be heavy enough to withstand the abuse from moving a tractor?

just my $0.02

btw- there IS a thread or 2 kicking around on here. i know someone was thinking of trying it
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:17 pm

Very good questions, Willis!

Hmm... I wonder if some sort of friction clutch would work better. Or a combination of the friction clutch and the electric one. (What I just pulled off of the whams, looks like exactly that, a combination of electric and friction. Doesn't work, so I can't test it to see how it operates. But it does look like it is operated electrically, then, applies face friction to the pulley itself.)

Getting wet... I don't know. But it does seem to me that when they put those electric clutches on there, they MUST have understood that sometimes the conditions they would be running in, would not exactly be dry.

~~~~~~~

As for everything being set on the back... Why so? Why not move the transmission up front, and have front wheel drive?

I think this idea is probably best suited to utility, and/or pullers, than to racers.
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:18 pm

Rear wheel steer?
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:10 pm

GenevaCustoms wrote:
Rear wheel steer?

Well, unless you can somehow use the setup that is usually on a rear/all wheel steer tractor.

I think some of those are more than FNR, right?
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:41 pm

I thought most of the al wheel steer transaxles were 5 speeds?
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:44 pm

GenevaCustoms wrote:
I thought most of the al wheel steer transaxles were 5 speeds?

youre right- there usually peerless MST-205's or something like that. ive seen hydros too
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:59 pm

Arent electric clutches usually horizontally oriented? Moisture and hard starting would be a major thing, youd burn it out. Oil is another, if its UNDER the input it is bound to get oil in it, and clutch plates dont like to engage when oily.

The best way to do a direct drive would be to mimic that on a passenger vehicle I think.

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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:10 pm

Any electric clutch I have ever seen, simply isn't designed for, or suited to, driveline use. It's one thing to hit the switch and have 2 or 3 blades engage abruptly. It's a whole other animal to try to instantly propel your butt plus 4-600lbs of tractor.

For one, I believe the clutch would have an impressively short lifespan. Whatever they have for friction material, is designed for abrupt, light-load engagement. Should it spend any time at all slipping under that great load, it would likely roast.

The transmission is a whole other can of monkey poop. I'd like to start an over/under pool on just how many parts it would scatter. Setting the number at 10, I got 50 bucks on "OVER". Again- not at all designed for abrupt engagement.

Bear in mind, I'm simply postulating. Never tried it. I've never tried hooking jumper cables to my testicles either, but I know what I'd put my money on there, too.

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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:56 pm

Doug Fackler wrote:
Arent electric clutches usually horizontally oriented? Moisture and hard starting would be a major thing, youd burn it out. Oil is another, if its UNDER the input it is bound to get oil in it, and clutch plates dont like to engage when oily.

The best way to do a direct drive would be to mimic that on a passenger vehicle I think.

actually alot of GT's have vertical clutches. more than you'd think. heck, my Toro proline walkbehind has a vertical one
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:49 pm

Ok. lots of good reasons why an electric clutch setup of that type wouldn't work.

I'm trying to think of how we could get the least amount of 'loss' going from the engine to the transmission.

Maybe stretching the body a bit, putting the trans up front, move the engine back a bit, and then as short as possible of a belt or chain, between the two?

Doc Sprocket wrote:
I've never tried hooking jumper cables to my testicles either, but I know what I'd put my money on there, too.

I'd put my money on WATCHING that!!!

Well, with an appropriate 'modesty screen', of course. Just seeing the reaction would be worth the price of admission. without us having to go to the trouble of gouging our eyes out with ice picks afterward...

Hey! Maybe you just figured out how to pay for those new tires you wanted!
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:53 pm

im with doug if youre trying to reduce power loss. do an automobile clutch and shaft drive to a tranny. run the shaft to an RAGB and down to the tranny
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:03 pm

Automotive clutch...

The sort of friction clutch that I was talking about, pretty much IS the tractor version of an automotive clutch.

If you only need 12 to 16 inches diameter worth of friction material for a several thousand pound rig that utilizes anywhere from 200 to 900 HP...

Why would the same sort of friction clutch wear out faster if it is 5 or 6 inches in diameter, on a 300 to 600 pound rig, (depending on the weight of the driver), and only 5 to 25 HP???
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PostSubject: Re: Direct drive idea.   Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:56 pm

apparently youve never mowed with a worn electronic PTO mower. they slip really bad. slipping creates heat, which burns stuff up.

now, why wouldnt it work? im not saying it wont. im saying (along with several others) that the electromagnet clutches are simply not buillt for the abuse that they would be subject to. we already covered this. you cant expect a 500+ pound machine to go from a dead stop to slamming foreward without catastrophic failure of one or more drivetrain components. they simple arent designed for that kind of force. the transaxle OR the clutch. its part of any drivetrain. there is supposed to be SOME degree of slip
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