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 AWS/4X4 project start......

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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:10 pm

Welding new steel joints might be the best, cheapest, strongest option.

A lot of 4x4 builds only utilize one steer axle and use a static rear. 4x4x4 is overkill really, as seen by the Quadtractor production numbers.

And as CQ said, you might be able to rebuild the joints. Since they arent used in a super high torsion application all you would need is new seals and needles, which could probably be salvaged from a similarly sized 3/4" ujoint.
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PostSubject: RE:AWS4X4   Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:26 pm

Fellas,

I  have considered attempting to rebuild these-they are not the typical U-joint design having cups/needles -these U-joints are 'block and pin' type,not meant to be disassembled as the pins are crimped once they are in place. I don't believe there are any needle bearings in this design,only hardened components in close tolerances on each other that are meant to be lubricated to last.

I could fabricate all of the pins and the block,but then those pieces must be heat treated as were the original in order to last under use,which I cannot do in my shop. Heat treating is another precise procedure involving specific high temps for a certain time period with certain metals of known composition...

Damn.......
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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:33 pm

Custom may be the way to go then.

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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:47 am

If you could get around the problem of the knuckle joints, 4x4 lawn tractors would become more popular. At the minute it feels a waste to put a lot of work into building a 4x4 only for it to last a short while/not get used often.

Is there anything stopping you from buying a regular 3/4" UJ and install it in the OEM knuckles?
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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:58 pm

Regular UJ's with a .750 bore and .186" key way,I presume. Yes,DocSprocket has suggested that also.  It would also require a standard pair of 930 axles shortened. The prob with that is the stub axles with the wheel flanges weld to them-they're also splined,and while they could possibly be used with a key-way added,the key-ways aren't going to take as much torque as the 48 splines can.......

I cut apart one of the U-joints to examine the components. I believe it's possible to convert them over to accept the small 'cup & cross' rebuild kits. It will involve a fixture to position the severed yoke 'leg' for welding,then another fixture for boring the yokes to accept the bearing cups. The odd thing about these OEM UJ's is that none of the components measurements agree with either the nominal metric or decimal graduations- i.e., 12mm,12.5mm or .625" (5/8")- What the hell is it- Whitworth?????.. confused
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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:34 am

The thing ive noticed is that transaxles have weird measurements for everything. It seems they went out of their way to prevent what you essentially are trying to do; use higher quality parts that can be found easier cheaper.

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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:51 pm

"weird dimensions...."

Well,I believe it.........At the present,I'm wrestling with the issue of those damn UJ's. Mad  There aren't any parts small enough to use in rebuilding these-I thought that I'd found a source,but it wasn't so. It's a given that any aws T-axle will have worn UJ's.so the decision is either use 'em ,buy new ones at a 'bend you over the bench' price,or pull the plug on the  whole idea of building an ASW4X4. Each option sucks....Shelling out $400 ++ for an engine or other major component is OK,but not for 4 little pieces one can hold in their hand, IMO. That really pisses me off...........
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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:28 pm

Could you bore it out to a more standard size, then add more bracing?
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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:57 pm

I had done some thinking on this kind of build a long time ago, but never got around to building anything. Since the ASW txs are so weak and hard to come by, I was going to use a pair of 633s with ujoints slipped on where the wheels would go, extending the width by 4-6" on both sides and requiring ALOT of precision fabricated parts. The shifter on the front axle would be a giant PITA and I never needed 4WD that bad. 26x12x12 carlisles will go just about anywhere I need to go.
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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:51 pm

4wd is not an easy thing to build from common tractor parts it seems. I've been thinking of various ways to do it for a couple years but haven't really came up with any decent ideas yet. It would be nice to have something light weight and simple, driven off the rear axle somehow only when you need it. Just like a true 4wd setup.

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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:09 pm

The FNRs are not built heavy enough to handle it, but using those with ujoints added to the axles for the front end with a 5 speed peerless for a transmission/transfer case would work better, since the shifting would all be done at 1 gear box. You would have to build a cage to reinforce the axle housings on the FNRs because they break easy.
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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:16 pm

The first 4wd ATV was chain drive on all 4 wheels. I can see that being very unreliable. I cant remember what they were called, but they were built around 1980.
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PostSubject: Re: AWS/4X4 project start......   Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:59 am

"...Could you bore it out to a more standard size, then add more bracing?"

I don't see any way to do that, CQ19  The space for a UJ is very limited. And,what few UJ's that are close to the originals are intended for steering columns-the manufacturers don't intend for their use in power transmission,therefore there are no published HP ratings. I would use the cast alum. steering knuckles without any hesitation regarding their strength.
Finding a 2nd set of them is also proving more difficult than I expected,


".. ASW txs are so weak and hard to come by...."

Amen to that....especially the hard to come by part.....


It's looking like I'll have to shelve this project until the UJ issue is solved AND that elusive 2nd pair of steering knuckles magically appears..... Mad
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