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 Fuel Frustration

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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Fuel Frustration   Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:38 pm

So, as I was mowing earlier this week, I encountered some issues. As I mentioned in another thread, what typically takes me 2-3 hours took me 2 days (approx 6 hrs actual mowing time).

(note: I do shake my 2 cycle gas can about 20-30 seconds before use)

I get my gas from a larger 100% gas advertised station.  Two times now, this issue has happened.  I filled my fuel containers in June added my stabilizers and Oil for my 2 cycle container.  Anyways, I ran out of gas on the tractor and refilled.  I noticed hard start and loss of power over time, and high heat from the engine.  ??  I was giving the mower a break and decided to weed eat.  Same issue, I noticed my weed eater bogging down a lot. I blamed the extra thick grass.  I had to refill my tank on the weed eater  which is also getting really hot.  After filling the tank I could not get the weed eater to start.  I went back to the tractor and struggled though the rest of the back yard.  I ended up mowing until 10pm (sorry neighbors) for the cooler air.

Next day, it hit me. I bet my gas is bad but, after just 2 months?  I tried to start my weed eater, it was a no go.  I dumped my 2 cycle gas can as it only had a sip left in it.  I ran to a newer station that advertises 100%.  Added my oil to the can and proceeded to pump my gas.  I got home and purged my weed eater of the gas I put in it the prior day that would not start just 30 minutes prior and about 50 pull tries.  New gas in, primed. BAM first pull.  Really?  I weed-eat the rest of the back yard and the front.  The engine did not bog, I even had to adjust the idle as it was performing like a new machine? Also, the engine did not get hotter than normal use.

I proceeded to do the same with the lawn tractor.  Same thing.  Easy start, and had full power even to truck through the deep thick grass.  Both pieces of equipment were performing like they were new?

So, correct me if I am wrong, could the previous gas caused my engines to run lean getting hot and loosing performance?  No water was found in the gas.
Or, could this station be running unlawfully (advertises 100%) ethanol (maybe more than 10%) causing the engines to get hot?

Either way, I will give this new station a go as this is not the first time this has happened and the equipment runs so much better on this new station. I will not be visiting the old station anymore.

I need to dump the gas in my old 77 Sears that will not start.  I bet it is because of bad gas. (Weekend side project sometime)

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mr.modified
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Frustration   Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:47 pm

Even if the gas had up to 15% or so ethanol in it, I wouldn't think it would cause issues like that. I don't think you would notice any run issues. That's really weird, not sure.

Race engines which run on pure methanol (Difference between methanol and ethanol...no idea....it's all alcohol to me) Anyway, Engines run on methanol need about twice as much fuel as the same engine ran on gasoline. So straight alcohol dumped into an engine jetted for gas would be really lean, and possibly run hot I suppose. When jetted to run on alcohol, engines run cooler than on gas. Due to a bunch of reasons which I forget.

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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Frustration   Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:11 pm

I know it was frustrating...

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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Frustration   Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:37 pm

Yeah small engines dont really like ethanol, especially older ones. Like mr.mod said though, I dont think that gas with 10%-15% ethanol would cause that much of a performance issue. I can see E85 causing that kinda stuff to happen, but you said they advertised 100% gasoline, so I'm not sure about that. Pretty odd.

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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Frustration   Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:29 pm

We'll see what happens. I'm done with the other store anyways.

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prancstaman
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Frustration   Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:21 pm

As everybody said, alcohol burns cooler. Any gas with any kind of alcohol added to it in any ratio will burn cooler then 100% gas. Not the cause of the overheating.  

You still got bad gas but not contaminated with water. Your octane level was too low. You still will get the burn but burn too fast because of the low octane level. How it works is the higher the octane level the slower and smoother the burn. It might have been just under the 87 rating by 5 or so points and not low enough for detonation. It burning faster in the cylinder would mean the fire would be in the cylinder longer to put more heat into the engine.

If you get into that situation again, adding alcohol would fix the issue. Alcohol or methanol or any off spring of alcohol would work or just a higher octane fuel mixed with the low octane fuel would work to bring up the octane rating. Alcohol, I think has an octane rating over 100 so you would use a little  bit, which would be ideal for an almost full gas can.
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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Frustration   Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:48 pm

Good info. I know it was a bit frustrating. 2nd time this has happened to me from that station. There is a new one that opened just a mile away so, that one is super convenient.

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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Frustration   Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:27 pm

Almost sounds like someone put diesel or kerosene in the gas stations gas tank... diesel will actually cause the same prob you were describing... I've seen people try using "White gas" camping fuel and have the same problems (white gas is just refined kerosene)

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PostSubject: Re: Fuel Frustration   Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:11 pm

@Lawren Wimberly wrote:
Almost sounds like someone put diesel or kerosene in the gas stations gas tank... diesel will actually cause the same prob you were describing... I've seen people try using "White gas" camping fuel and have the same problems (white gas is just refined kerosene)

You know, that could be the case. This station I have trouble with is also a Truck Stop down the road. I bet they "screw up" from time to time.

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