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 [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS

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mr.modified
DimeWeld
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mr.modified

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PostSubject: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeTue Feb 18, 2020 12:01 pm

The plan is to build a machine with better handling than the traditional off road tractor layout. By custom building a frame, I hope to lower the center of gravity by reducing wasted space and also add front and rear suspension. The body work will be based off the 1970's Simplicity Broadmoors.

Specs as planned. Subject to changes as nessesary...
The Engine: Briggs Opposed twin (Horizontal shaft) with ARC rods and flywheel ect.
Transmission: 633a
Tire size: 18 x 8.50 x 10 Kenda Terra Trac
Body work: Fiberglass
Suspension Front: IFS, Coil over shocks, 3" travel
Suspension Rear: Straight axle hinged on transmission axle stubs, Coil over shocks, 3" travel
Drive: 5/8" belt clutch with chain final to rear axle
Brakes: Rear axle disk

Some work has already been completed, as you already know if you saw my other build thread. I have the front section of the frame mostly built and started work on the suspension arms. Other than that, I've just collected parts. I have five opposed twins in various states. A couple stock ones and a few with billet parts. Some suspension joints and a golf cart rack and pinion have been purchased along with some alloy wheels from northern tool.

Front frame section, Upper control arms, yamaha golf cart rack and pinion, ARC billet rod, and Northern tool golf cart wheel.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7233

[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7235

Lots of options are available for 4 on 4 hubs/lug pattern, which was one reason I went with golf cart wheels. I also wanted to keep the wheel size small enough that the rear suspension would have room to move with a low seating position. The outter tire diameter isn't much less than the front wheels on the Simplicity Adventure Edition, so hopefully they will do alright on rocks ect.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7234

Approved MightyRaze Feb 18, 2020


[adm]While the build actually started before build-off, it still meets the less than 50% rule of complete by build-off start.  Per rule on entry instructions: 

https://www.atltf.com/t5969-2020-build-off-instructions

4.) In your thread, post the picture(s) and a description outlining your build plans. Remember that your project must be LESS than 50% finished to qualify, so you need to convince us you have a lot of work ahead. Make it count!

As @Doug has stated when he personally saw the project, @mr.modified still has a lot of work ahead of him.

Previous work on the project can be found here:
https://www.atltf.com/t6224-simplicity-broadmoor-r-s-project
[/adm]


Last edited by mr.modified on Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeTue Feb 18, 2020 12:19 pm

Welcome to the build-off.  As I agree with @Doug, you are not near the 50% mark. Good Luck!

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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeTue Feb 18, 2020 5:25 pm

Thanks for the approval!
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeTue Feb 18, 2020 9:21 pm

Tonight I didn't get really far, but avoided a potentially serious time wasting mistake. Previously I had roughly measured the angle of the king pins and thought there was a 1" difference between the upper and lower mounting points (when the wheel is straight up and down). As it turns out, it's only a 3/8" difference. To keep the wheels fairly straight, I need to make the lower arms longer than the top to account for the angle. Would have had some serious camber if I made them a full 1" longer...

Forward frame is flipped upside down and the "jig" is clamped in the new revised position for the lower control arms. I will double check tomorrow night before continuing. A minor difference is the thickness of the skid plate is now added in between the jig and frame. To be able to clamp the arm pieces straight during welding I will add a couple big washers at the ball joint end (bolt end of the jig) to account for it.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7236

Also realized that Haspin is only about four months away. I've gotta really step things up to be anywhere close to done by then. I'll have a bit more time before the Top Tractor Challenge, but it would be best to be done for Haspin so I can do some testing and also fine tuning before the event in August. Besides that, I'd need to have some seat time on the thing to have a good feel for it.
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeTue Feb 18, 2020 10:54 pm

To do some testing at haspin haha. I think the correct term may be thrashing? Hah maybe, maybe not.

Glad to see progress on it. Very neat project. Still haven’t decided if I want to make the drive to TTC, but we shall see. I’d love to see this thing in action when it’s all done
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeWed Feb 19, 2020 12:36 pm

I hope it ends up being pretty nimble and I'll be able to throw it around pretty good. That's the plan anyway. Hopefully tonight I can get close to having the lower arms done. Then I can assemble the front end more or less and see how the spindles are gonna go. I have a bunch of shims and collars to line up so that will be easier once I have the arms on there and can measure things up.

Also snagged one of the front RFY ebay shocks off the Simplicity Adventure Edition to see how they will fit.
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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeWed Feb 19, 2020 3:53 pm

@CraftsmanQuad19 wrote:
To do some testing at haspin haha. I think the correct term may be thrashing? Hah maybe, maybe not.

Glad to see progress on it. Very neat project. Still haven’t decided if I want to make the drive to TTC, but we shall see. I’d love to see this thing in action when it’s all done

You better make it. Who else am I gonna pick on all weekend Razz

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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeWed Feb 19, 2020 7:29 pm

@Doug wrote:
@CraftsmanQuad19 wrote:
To do some testing at haspin haha. I think the correct term may be thrashing? Hah maybe, maybe not.

Glad to see progress on it. Very neat project. Still haven’t decided if I want to make the drive to TTC, but we shall see. I’d love to see this thing in action when it’s all done

You better make it. Who else am I gonna pick on all weekend Razz

You and Sean have haspin for that
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeWed Feb 19, 2020 9:21 pm

Tonight I welded all the inserts for the pivot/frame side of the lower arms. Then I realized I already used all ten foot of the 1" square steel I had. So I'm gonna need to buy more on saturday. I'll use that to finish the lower arms and also some more of the frame and rear swing arm will probably be made from that. The 7/8" weldable joints should be no problem to weld to the lower arms. Looks like the 1" steel will fit right over it if I notch the ends out. I plan on removing some steel from the bulky 7/8 joints to save some weight. They're a bit heavier than they need to be.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7242
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeFri Feb 21, 2020 3:50 pm

Alright, I have one of the RFY shocks off the #64 simplicity set in place to see how it fits the suspension.
From what I can see, I think I could use reservoir shocks like this one if they are flipped upside down. Looks like the steering shaft will be going over the top vs under the shock. I may go with non reservoir shocks. Found some that are roughly an inch shorter.

Bear in mind that the opposed will be fairly tall and the steering will need to clear the top edge of it anyway. So it may not effect things too much to go over the shock. Shorter shocks could be tucked in closer still to the frame making even more room. Some space needs to be left between the spring and steering shaft for suspension travel.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7244

[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7243

[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7245
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeSat Feb 22, 2020 7:51 am

Looking really good
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeSat Feb 22, 2020 9:28 am

Left side control arm resting on the rack and pinion is a little concerning.  Will that be hitting when more complete?

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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeSun Feb 23, 2020 12:19 am

Thanks! And naw it won't hit when it's assembled. It was just laying on it.

Set up to weld the lower arms
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7246

Removed a decent chunk out of the lower joints to save a little weight. They're way overkill anyway. Plus I could use a clear shot to weld the shock brackets on later.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7247

Pic flipped sideways probably because my junk camera. One side done and test fitted. Looks slightly odd from the top since the upper and lower arms are at different angles.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7248

Lower joints welded into the arms. One spot must have had something in the steel or some oil on it when I welded it. The rest of it turned out nice.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7249

So at this point, both sets of upper and lower arms are together. I'll still need the shock brackets of course. Next thing is to order some shocks and a steering shaft. Also need some lock nuts for the heim joints and possibly some misalignment spacers. I'll have to figure out how the spindles/king pins are going to be bolted together. There's a lot of sleeves and things involved.
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeMon Feb 24, 2020 9:30 pm

Some issues at Simplicity HQ... For those who enjoy reading and stories

I assembled the front suspension and bolted the front wheels on to see how everything lines up and check the steering. It would be nice to have a picture but I when I tried to use the camera I didn't have an sd card.

First of all, somehow my measurements were (possibly) slightly off and the arms ended up being very slightly shorter than they are supposed to be. Between 1/4"-1/2". (It's not easy to get exact measuring points on the center of bolts ect). If you recall, the main reason I was planning on 42" outside wheel width was so that I could have 45 degree steering and not have the tires contact the engine on a hard turn. So having the arms too short would be a bad thing...normally. But I don't think i'm going to be able to have full 45 degree steering, so it shouldn't effect anything. Also the spacing between the upper and lower ball joints seems fine (there's a lot of adjustability there too).

Also, it seems I measured the wheel width incorrectly by (at the most) 3/4". They are 3/4" narrower than anticipated. This is not an issue at all and is even helpful. Narrower wheels mean I don't get jammed between trees and can still have tight steering angles without the inside hitting anything. The reason I measured it wrong is either: One, I measured the old tires from doug's old golf cart which are marked as the same size but actually slightly different. Or two, I didn't measure the tires at all and drew the wheels on my blueprints based on tire size alone. I don't exactly remember. At any rate, it doesn't really matter.

There are a couple issues with the steering situation. First of all, the suspension arms have enough clearance without the ball joints binding up for almost 4" of travel. It would make sense to make use of as much of that as possible. But...the rack and pinion inner tie rod ends tend to bind up before you can move the suspension that far. Also when steering, the inner tie rod end on the outside of a turn will bind before the wheel can get to 45 degrees. The problem is that the rack and pinon is too wide. If the inner tie rod ends were closer to each other, the the tie rods could be longer and they wouldn't be at such a steep angle. There's no (easy) way to modify the rack to make that happen. So stop collars would have to be sleeved over the shaft of the rack and then I could weld them to the back of the inner tie rod ends to stop it before the ends bind.

The maximum steering that I can get with this setup is about the same as the #64 simplcity, which isn't horrible, but I already thought it was lacking a bit for the TTC. It's somewhere around 25-30 degrees. (I don't have the most accurate way to check angles either).

One other issue... The inner tie rod ends will also contact the lower control arm during a tight turn with the suspension at around 2" compressed. I could limit the suspension to roughly 2" but that wouldn't make a lot of sense. I could "washer" the rack and pinion up a bit and gain some more suspension travel, but then I think I run out of inner tie rod end travel at full suspension compression.

If I had a shorter rack and pinion, both problems would be solved and I could gain both steering and suspension travel. Except one more slight issue that I forgot about. I may have limited how far the steering can go by how far the control arms come straight out from the frame to clear the threads of the hiem joints. I didn't check that too closely yet but I don't think that will be as much of an issue as the rack and pinion.

I still need to double check everything, but if the current rack and pinion doesn't work out, I could do a couple different things:

-Use a bell crank where the rack is now and place the rack parallel with the frame, using only one side of the rack to move the bell crank. I could have much longer tie rods and they wouldn't have nearly as much angle. (Not sure if there is room between the engine and where the bell crank would have to be). In theory, I could even mount the rack straight up and down and still be able to steer it that way.

-Build a go kart type direct steer setup with a shaft going straight down between the forward frame rails. This wouldn't be too hard but I don't think it would work the best. My previous experience with direct steering hasn't been too great. Might be do-able but I don't know.

So, it's looking like the rack will be a problem and limit everything quite a bit more than I wanted. I've gotta do some more checking and then make some sort of decision pretty fast. The clock is ticking and this front end is taking a long time to sort out. Still have the whole rest of the machine to build.

@MightyRaze wrote:
Left side control arm resting on the rack and pinion is a little concerning.  Will that be hitting when more complete?
So they did end up being an issue, just at the lower arm instead of the upper one. I didn't think they would be any where close.
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeTue Feb 25, 2020 11:56 pm

I can get 2.5" of travel from the suspension (without hitting the inner tie rod ends) if I use a 1/4" spacer under the rack and pinion. Then the only issue is getting the steering to work without binding up. I may have to make something like this to be able to lengthen the tie rods.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Rack11
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2020 1:14 am

what about some thing like a utv steering box like this one would it work https://www.gopowersports.com/steering-assembly/
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2020 8:57 am

That looks like it would be a nice unit to use.
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2020 12:06 pm

@mr.modified wrote:
I can get 2.5" of travel from the suspension (without hitting the inner tie rod ends) if I use a 1/4" spacer under the rack and pinion. Then the only issue is getting the steering to work without binding up. I may have to make something like this to be able to lengthen the tie rods.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Rack11

I’m thinking about doing something like this on the mk2
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2020 10:00 pm

Finally some pics! Viewed from the back. Bolted to table at 7" center ground clearance.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7254

2-1/2" suspension travel (or whatever I said earlier) I was thinking that even though I originally planned on more, 2.5" really isn't too bad considering you only have 7" of clearance in the middle. How much suspension are you gonna use anyway on rough ground when the bottom is just going to end up smacking a rock or something. Still should be a usable amount to work with.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7256

Steered out as in a left turn at full suspension depression. Note the clearance of the inner tie rod end to the lower arm. That's after spacing the rack up about 1/4", which is all the room you have with the upper arm at the bottom of the travel.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7252

Front view
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7253

Top
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7257

I decided to weld up some ends and see how it works out. Turns out it will clear everything but it's very close. Also, I messed up the ackerman angle a bit because I couldn't find the proper info online and my cardboard mock up somehow showed me the wrong thing since I didn't have it figured out too well. Anyway, at this point, I think I'm just going to continue on from here and see how the rack holds up. If I have problems later on I will just re-do the front end. It's not horribly bad but kind of a shame that I messed it up. We shall see how it turns out. Time to buy some shocks and start adjusting things.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Img_7255
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeThu Feb 27, 2020 2:43 pm

shame that rack is giving you issues, I like the rack to belcrank idea, might make your steering shaft super easy also, could use the belcrank from a suburban to speed up the fab work?
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeThu Feb 27, 2020 4:11 pm

That might work yeah. I think it will be ok this way, just that it's an extremely tight fit. In the long run it will cause a bit more wear and tear on the tie rod ends and probably the rack too, but if it lasts awhile that would be ok. Might be best to experiment with this setup first anyway since I already made the frame to fit it.
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PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeFri Feb 28, 2020 2:02 am

Do I see Haspin pit fixes this year? Am I gonna have to bring the genny and the welder? lol

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CraftsmanQuad19

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Join date : 2016-04-12
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Location : Indiana

[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Empty
PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeFri Feb 28, 2020 12:59 pm

I’ll be bringing my new welder with me to haspin
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mr.modified
DimeWeld
DimeWeld
mr.modified

Age : 30
Join date : 2013-11-02
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Location : New Jersey USA

[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Empty
PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeSun Mar 01, 2020 10:10 pm

Maybe, who knows. I think I'm gonna ignore the front end issues temporarily and work on the engine for a bit. I'll probably have to sort something else out. The ackerman angle isn't figured too good.

Took the side covers off both remaining opposed engines that I hadn't checked before. The one has stock rods which isn't so great. The other does have ARC rods and a decent cam which I will probably use. I'm going to order some gaskets and hopefully have the an engine ready to go fairly quick.

I'm a bit doubtful as to whether or not I can get this thing ready in time for haspin.
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DimeWeld
DimeWeld
mr.modified

Age : 30
Join date : 2013-11-02
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Location : New Jersey USA

[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Empty
PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitimeWed Mar 04, 2020 8:02 pm

Both lower shock mounts welded up. I plan on having two or three different holes in the top ones for stiffer and softer suspension setup as needed.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS 100_0210

These are some ebay shocks which are a bit shorter than the RFY shocks. 9.5" center to center and 750 lbs? They seem slightly cheaper than the RFY's so we'll see how they work out.
[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS 100_0211
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[2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Empty
PostSubject: Re: [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS   [2020 Build-Off Entry] Mr.Modified's Simplicity Broadmoor RS Icon_minitime

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