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All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum

Like riding lawn tractors through mud, woods, rocks, and snow? Then this is the place for you! Share your ideas, Post your projects and more!
 
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murphyslaw
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murphyslaw

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PostSubject: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeSun Dec 27, 2020 9:05 pm

Thanks for adding me into your forum, I am just starting out with getting one of these together. Looking forward to being a part of the discussions and your community.
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murphyslaw
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeSun Dec 27, 2020 9:08 pm

I saw you all have a discord channel? Could I get a link to it? Seems like a way easier place to communicate.
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Longbow
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeSun Dec 27, 2020 9:23 pm

@murphyslaw welcome
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murphyslaw
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeSun Dec 27, 2020 9:33 pm

Thanks @longbow
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Budget_gokart
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeSun Dec 27, 2020 9:54 pm

Welcome!
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murphyslaw
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeSun Dec 27, 2020 10:44 pm

@budget_gokart
@longbow
The forum is so big, where do you guys chat about stuff?
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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeSun Dec 27, 2020 11:08 pm

@murphyslaw Welcome to ATLTF. I saw your message. The discord is pretty dead right now as well as our chat on the page. Best thing to do is start you a thread. You can start your initial comments here and when you are ready to talk about the project you are making in more detail, head over to the "Home" from the top menu bar, and select "Tractor Project Builds" and go ahead and start a topic in one of those categories that fit your build type!

@murphyslaw wrote:
I have a simple question like have you ever tried turning a tractor with a hydrostatic transmission into an off roader or what size pulleys would be best to put on the tran/engine do I have to make a new forum post?

I'll start off and say pulley swapping a hydrostatic transmission does not work like you are intending.

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CraftsmanQuad19
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeSun Dec 27, 2020 11:18 pm

Welcome to the forum! You can try pulley swapping a hydrostatic trans, but more than likely you’ll burn the pump up or blow out an internal seal
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murphyslaw
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 12:31 am

Hey guys, thanks for the advice. @mightyraze @craftsmanQuad19
What size wheels do you typically run on a new build?
I'm still looking for a tractor to modify. I have a Craftsman II but it is my lawn mower and even though it would be a perfect candidate I would be worried about no longer having a lawn mower if I mess it up on the trails. Also not sure what size tires I should switch out to when I get one.
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darkside0914
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 12:48 am

craftsman lt1000/2000 are popular and plentiful, so are murray wide bodies like the one in my profile pic,on a transaxle with 3/4in axles a 8in wheel with 22in tires are most common but depending on the terrain and speeds a smaller tire like a 20in or 18in may be better suited, on a heavier transaxle with a 1in axle you can comfortably run 23in and have seen 25in tires run without issue, if you're lucky enough to get one of the tractors with a heavy duty axle like a peerless 633 or 2300, just to name 2, i've seen tires as big as 27 to 30in run on them without causing problems, on the front i personally like an 18in tire on an 8in wheel, but this also varies by personal preference, some like stock size tires, others run bigger tires
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murphyslaw
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 1:08 am

@darkside0914
Thanks for the advice, I didn't even think about the factor of axle size when running larger tires. I'd like to be able to get through any sort of terrain and be fast doing it. I also have not noticed many with suspensions added. Why haven't many of you done that?
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 6:57 am

@murphyslaw you can put suspension on the fronts if you have some fabrication skills and an old four wheeler laying around for example. Problem with the rear is that is where all the action is happening. i.e. Belt on a pully (usually) shifter usually runs directly into transaxle and then the brake system is usually a pull bar with some kind of spring return. Maybe if you had an old wheeler with a Independent rear suspension and you wanted to fab that in. That seems like a ton of work. A lot of guys are beefing up the springs and/or seat suspension for a less backbreaking ride.
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 10:50 am

I’ve got front suspension on my tractor, steering has been a royal PITA. I went with an independent setup and now that most of the bugs are worked out it does great! @AlliskidD21 is the suspension guru. He has a Ford style twin I beam, mono link solid axle, leaf sprung solid axle, and a triangulated 3 or 4 link (can’t remember which off the top of my head.

Tire size and tread mostly depends on what kind of terrain you plan on riding. I definitely recommend a welded differential (plenty of vids on those if you’re unsure how to go about it). For deep mud, bigger is better. 22” is the tallest you can get for an 8” wheel. For hill climbing and speed, maybe a little light mud, you’re probably best with the stock 18-20” sire size. I believe the rears on mine are 18 or 18.5

For a Swiss Army knife type build, I’d run 20-22” tires with a welded diff, frame reinforcing, make sure your steering is strong and tight, and lower everything on the frame as much as you can. Fuel tank, seat, and battery are the big ones. And run about a gallon of RV antifreeze in each front tire and you should be able to do pretty much everything pretty well. If your belt stays on and you’ve got the power to turn the tires with some decent wheel speed, you should be able to keep up in a group ride just about anywhere
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murphyslaw
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 11:55 am

@longbow @craftsmanquad19

I didn't think about how suspension on the rear would mess with that gear shifter in the transmission. Maybe if that lever had a big enough hole to float up and down in it could work. It would be kind of strange to look down and see your shifter moving with the terrain but it could work in theory.
I wish I had an old ATV laying around. Would definitely be using the parts off that.
I'm going to have to look up @alliskidD21 Ford and see what he has going on there. Why has your front suspension been such a pain Craftsmanquad?
Thanks for the advice on the tire sizes. I'm going to try to find a tractor with a big rear axle to avoid the risk of breaking. There is a wheel horse b165 that I'm going to check out today. That seems like it would be a decent candidate.
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 12:43 pm

The biggest thing is the steering. Just due to it being IFS. Solid axle wouldn’t be anywhere near as difficult if you used a factory axle and spindles. Getting the bellcrank to work smoothly with the right ratio and mounted and strong enough and just ugh. It took several tries to get right. With independent front suspension you want equal length tie rods to minimize bump steer. So I had to have a bellcrank mounted to the center of the frame. The height was critical, as it has to be high enough to clear the lower control arms, but low enough to clear the engine pulley.

Stole an idea from AK and used a steel idler pulley with some tabs welded to it to make the newest version. This has been the smoothest and tightest (no slop) version so far. But as joints wear out, the slop gets far worse because I have 6 heim joints (2 on the drag link, and 2 on each tie rod) plus the pivot bearing on the bellcrank, PLUS the steering box. If all of those points have just a little slop it turns into a half turn of the steering wheel worth of slop. Standard lawn tractors just have the box, two ends on the drag link, and 2 ends on the single tie rod. Several less points for wear/slop to occur.

The main point though, getting the geometry just right was tough. Not impossible, but extremely annoying. It’s still not perfect, but it’s a vast improvement over the first version
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murphyslaw
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 12:58 pm

@CraftsmanQuad19 do you have any pictures of this set up?
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 7:33 pm

New member from Michigan 3ff88410

This is the new bellcrank next to the old one. I’ll dig through my thread for a pic of the setup on the tractor
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2020 7:54 pm

After looking through the thread, I didn’t post any pics of the underside. I’ll make sure to get you some the next time I mess with the tractor though. It’s in hibernation behind the barn awaiting the next group ride. I can post a link to the full thread if you’d like to get some ideas. I drew a lot of inspiration from @redzz02 and his haspin build, as well as the mowrons craftsman tractors. Just search “CraftsmanQuad Mark II” and “redzz02 haspin build” for the full threads on mine and reds tractors
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murphyslaw
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2020 11:21 am

@CraftsmanQuad19
First I want to ask why don't you all have discord on your phones and use that to communicate? That's a great way to talk to each other about this stuff.
Second I can agree with you about the hapsin build. I was on YouTube looking at some things about it.
If you want to post a link to your thread I'd gladly check it out.
I am also very excited to start my build. I found a wheel horse b165. I don't own it yet because it's in an auction but I plan to be the highest bidder.
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2020 7:41 pm

Here is the original buildoff entry, now locked since that buildoff has ended:

https://www.atltf.com/t6015-finalist-craftsmanquad-s-craftsmanquad-mark-ii-2019-buildoff-entry


This is the thread for the post buildoff updates:

https://www.atltf.com/t5845-craftsmanquad-mark-ii

I actually started that thread before the buildoff so the first page and a half roughly are just planning and parts collecting. There’s a couple pics of the current steering setup, though not all complete and in the tractor
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murphyslaw
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2020 10:20 pm

Why you bother reinforcing the frame? Are they really that unstable that they need to be reinforced?
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2020 10:47 pm

I had a flexy frame on my last tractor. Got tired of the dash smashing me in the knees. Plus the more they flex, over time, the more likely they’ll crack. Plus the belt and clutch alignment, among other things. Stiffer frame is more gooder
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murphyslaw
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2020 10:56 pm

definitely don't want to flexing frame.. I wish these transmissions were synchronized so they could be shifted while moving..
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2020 11:31 pm

You can shift while moving no problem, just have to get a feel for it. Syncros would be nice though
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PostSubject: Re: New member from Michigan   New member from Michigan Icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2020 11:32 pm

Most can be shifted on the go. The GT trans don’t like it though. That would be the Sears suburban and craftsman with the roper 633, anything with a peerless 2300, all the wheel horse 8 speeds (do they have a 6 speed too?), and the cub cadet. Those are the common ones.

Generally, vertical input transaxles can shift on the go, side inputs can’t
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