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 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.

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CraftsmanQuad19
DimeWeld
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Join date : 2016-04-12
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Feb 15, 2021 7:06 pm

You mind if I post them on the ATLTF insta mighty?
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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Feb 15, 2021 7:47 pm

I don't care...

_______________________________________________
Modified Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT
TheGreenMachine - "coming 2022"
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Rustbucket Garage
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Feb 15, 2021 7:54 pm

Little slow here but with the new stance there I think we should call her Big Red here on out. What do you think there @MightyRaze

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MightyRaze
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 19, 2021 8:57 pm

Final update? We'll see. She's still bogging a bit. May need some more carb work.


_______________________________________________
Modified Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT
TheGreenMachine - "coming 2022"
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!

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MightyRaze
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 19, 2021 10:00 pm

Little frustrated with the engine.  Although I've never had 12 inch wheels on the tractor, I should still be able to spin the tires and not bog down so much.  (Video when I cut over to the other side of the front yard.)

I see the Ohio guys running single clone engines ripping away in the slush and mud no issue.

Not sure if it is the carb, highly likely.  Still not right with the valves, possibly.  Sparkalators not right, definitely.

I did pull the trigger for a new sump gasket for the 21HP OHV Twin just in case.

_______________________________________________
Modified Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT
TheGreenMachine - "coming 2022"
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
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Rustbucket Garage
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 19, 2021 10:05 pm

You and me both with engine problems. Sounds like compression is good from the video. Those carbs are awful for not running right from what I’ve heard. Could there maybe be something up with the governor? I am not sure being I’m new to small engines, that is just from my frustrations from the wonder that is the vanguard. Hope you get it figured out ok.
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BlakeGroce
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 19, 2021 11:08 pm

I've never had any issues from rebuilding carburetors until that dang techumseh came along.  Mad  But yeah it definitely should be able to spin those tires with no issues.......my 8 hp honda spins the 25s on brutus with no issues.

Any of your clutch pulleys or tensioner pulleys tight or froze up? I had that happen on my dads hustler, the bearing in the tensioner pulley locked up and the belt destroyed that plastic pulley. It didnt make any noise and I didnt smell anything just felt like it was down on power.

Is the transaxle easy to turn? Idk just trying to name things off. I'm sure you have already checked over everything but it sounds and looks like its running good when it's not under a load. I'd pull a plug and see what that tells you, might help with carb adjustment.
The brakes ain't on are they?  lol!.............sometimes I wish it were that easy.
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Rustbucket Garage
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 19, 2021 11:15 pm

Got to thinking... is there maybe a gummed up jet somewhere? Also could it maybe be that one coil wire is bad? Just a thought that I had. Don’t have any more cause thinking hurts too much for me lol!
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 19, 2021 11:17 pm

@Rustbucket Garage wrote:
You and me both with engine problems. Sounds like compression is good from the video. Those carbs are awful for not running right from what I’ve heard. Could there maybe be something up with the governor? I am not sure being I’m new to small engines, that is just from my frustrations from the wonder that is the vanguard. Hope you get it figured out ok.


Both brakes are good,  rolls fine.  Trans turns fine.  All idlers are new and spin great.  No belt drag.  Pulled a plug and it looked perfect.  Not wet or oily.

Pretty certain this is a case of taking a shortcut to "Send It.." is coming back to bite me.  When I had the engine apart, the valves were acting a bit weird.  Let me explain.  On the compression stroke the valves sealed tight on both sides.  On Top-Dead-Center they didn't seem to seal good.  That logically doesn't make sense to me.  The cam inside looked fine.  Anyway, I figured since it seemed to seal on compression stroke, I sent it.  

So...

I worked over the engine this afternoon.  I found my compression and leak test kits.  I hate to go on, but left side engine I was getting 45psi with leaks.  Right side I got 32psi with major leak.

I knew I should have did a valve job.  I hate pulling valve springs.  I have a briggs tool now, so this should be easier.  I guess I have a new project.  Should I screw up, I do have a couple engines to pull new valves.

Dizzy

_______________________________________________
Modified Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT
TheGreenMachine - "coming 2022"
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
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MightyRaze
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 19, 2021 11:21 pm

@Rustbucket Garage wrote:
Got to thinking... is there maybe a gummed up jet somewhere? Also could it maybe be that one coil wire is bad? Just a thought that I had. Don’t have any more cause thinking hurts too much for me lol!

Also a new coil pack.  Gets really good spark.  Probably why it runs at all.  LOL

_______________________________________________
Modified Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT
TheGreenMachine - "coming 2022"
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
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BlakeGroce
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 20, 2021 12:57 am

Hahaha! I knew you would've already checked everything I said, should have known better! You wont screw it up I've got faith in ya!  Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2731072446
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Rustbucket Garage
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 20, 2021 10:21 am

I knew you’d figure it out. I saw a video of a this British fella who went and bought an utter pile of junk.. think if he sneezed it would have disintegrated. Thing had absurdly low compression, can’t remember the exact figure but I think it was around 18 psi. Somehow it ran. If you are interested:
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 20, 2021 10:39 am

Yeah it sounds like a valve grind is order for the ol' girl Mighty.

In your video at about 4:43, when the engine starts do you hear that slight squeaking sort of sound as it fires and idles? Also how the engine doesn't bark to a start, it takes a few seconds almost like it's building up. Those are definitely indicators of a valve out of 'er. In fact, most times you hear that on an engine it's a valve not seating. I would say it needs the clearances done as well as the valve faces and seats. She'll probably be like new then.

By the way, Red's looking killer!!

_______________________________________________
"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
     
      - MTD Off-Road Build
      - Ford LT 110 Off-Road Build
      - Craftsman GT 6000 Off-Road Build
       - Sears LT11 Rat Rod Build *2019 Build-Off Winner!*


  - Allis B-110 x2, 710 & 716 - Wheel Horse 655, 953 & 500 Special - Case 444 - Bolens Versamatic & 1668 - Cub 106 & 124 - Ford LGT 125 & 145 - White 1650 Yard Boss
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MightyRaze
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 20, 2021 1:21 pm

@AllisKidD21 wrote:
Yeah it sounds like a valve grind is order for the ol' girl Mighty.

In your video at about 4:43, when the engine starts do you hear that slight squeaking sort of sound as it fires and idles? Also how the engine doesn't bark to a start, it takes a few seconds almost like it's building up. Those are definitely indicators of a valve out of 'er. In fact, most times you hear that on an engine it's a valve not seating. I would say it needs the clearances done as well as the valve faces and seats. She'll probably be like new then.

By the way, Red's looking killer!!

Thanks @AllisKidD21!  I tore into it today and it's looking far more than just a valve grind.  I need about .005 off all but one valve that may need around .01 off it.  The worst part is... and I actually checked this in one of my earlier videos.  For some reason now, the pistons are also really sloppy.  Lower left is getting oil past the piston.

scratch Dizzy

_______________________________________________
Modified Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT
TheGreenMachine - "coming 2022"
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
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BlakeGroce
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 20, 2021 5:12 pm

Oooof. That definitely isnt helping your compression issues. Might be a good excuse to swap that v-twin on.


I would say maybe the rings are worn if the cylinder walls look good, and I cant see why the rings would go from un-stuck to stuck. Does it have aluminum cylinder walls? Or is it sleeved?
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PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 20, 2021 7:38 pm

@BlakeGroce wrote:
Oooof. That definitely isnt helping your compression issues. Might be a good excuse to swap that v-twin on.


I would say maybe the rings are worn if the cylinder walls look good, and I cant see why the rings would go from un-stuck to stuck. Does it have aluminum cylinder walls? Or is it sleeved?

The plot thickens....

First a response...
I thought about getting a ring set and a light honing of the cylinder walls.  They are finely scored and the left side has some residual marking from it having a little rust it appears at some time.  Sleeved?  I'm pretty certain they are.

OK, back to the plot thickening.  I drained the oil in prep to maybe tear into it and replace the rings.  I realize now Ring sets are going to run around 60 bucks, as I don't care to have some china junk on such a precise part of the engine. Now for the even worse news... the oil was all glittery.

Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702 Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2429134702

It's looking like Red wants that V-Twin.  Drunk

_______________________________________________
Modified Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT
TheGreenMachine - "coming 2022"
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
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Murraymountain
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 20, 2021 7:50 pm

Sounds like either way the motor has to come off again eh?

I would definitely say that bogging has something to do with rings. That's kind of how my brother's 19 horse acted just about 3 times worse. His was actually MISSING a compression ring. I'll bet one of the compression rings are worn out.

Not sure what to tell you on the glitter though. Only thing I would know to do is to pull er apart again.
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 20, 2021 7:57 pm

Engine is already off.

Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Fb2e0510
Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 8e1c0f10
Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 E3e69210

_______________________________________________
Modified Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT
TheGreenMachine - "coming 2022"
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
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Rustbucket Garage
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 20, 2021 10:09 pm

Not going to lie, I winced a bit when you talked about the metal filings. That sounds painful. How fine is the scoring? If you can’t feel it with a finger you are fine. Hope the V twin works out better for ya Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 2731072446
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PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2021 1:41 am

I can’t feel them at all. I’ll going to weigh the options more tomorrow. I would like to pull a cylinder out (worst one) and see how bad it is. If the crank is scored too. That will sway my hand. Honestly, I would like to keep the oppy but if it starts adding up $$ to fix it back. She’ll become a parts engine.

_______________________________________________
Modified Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT
TheGreenMachine - "coming 2022"
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
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Murraymountain
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PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2021 8:38 am

If it was me, just being how I am, I would run it like it sits or swap on a new motor up until I'm ready to throw a whole bunch of billet parts at it.... I mean, you know that's what Red is asking for....





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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2021 9:48 pm

Spent some time with the engine today.  Pulled both pistons out. The crank and rods are NOT scored.

This is the worse cylinder.  I think a honing will clean it up.  The other (upper) is in pretty good shape.

Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Img_1110


Rods look great!  Almost brand new?

Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Img_1111

Crank looks just fine too!

Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Img_1112

Starter inside was toasted to a crisp.  Replacement is needed.

So with all this, I have decided to give this engine some love and get it back up and running.  I am replacing the rings.  They looked pretty burned.  I found some NOS rings for decent price and ordered them.  ($24 a piston)  I also pulled a trigger on a new starter.   I also worked on the valves.  In research, there should be a little bit of gap on the input I believe for compression release.  But it was only about .001?  I forget.  Mine was WAY more than that.  I took it down to just turn it and just for a fraction of the cycle.  Great seal on compression stroke.  Block is ready for parts.

On a side note, I will need a new set of head gaskets as my new ones tore on removal.  There is one thing on this engine that drives me nuts.

These 2 pockets below the inspection plate.

Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Img_1113

Oil gets down in them and sludges up.  I am so tempted to drill out return holes in them.  Thoughts?  I have tried to RTV the area above them, but oil still gets in there.

_______________________________________________
Modified Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT
TheGreenMachine - "coming 2022"
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
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PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2021 10:44 pm

If you "know a guy," I would have someone check the piston-to-wall clearance to make sure it's not egged shaped. Also check the cam for play. I've had a cam eat up the sump before. Not saying that's where your metal shavings came from, but if by some chance that's not remains of the rings you found in the oil... Better to just make sure everything is good before you put a bunch of work into it. That's where I went wrong when I had to put shift keys in the MM.
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Rustbucket Garage
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PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2021 11:12 pm

To build off what @Murraymountain said if you have a micrometer on hand or know somebody who has one take the 5 minutes to check the crank journals on a couple axes to make sure it’s in round and in spec, that probably isn’t the cause of your shavings but you can’t be too careful. Also if you hone that cylinder be very light with it. Those aluminum blocks are easy to overbore. Good luck with the rebuild!
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PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2021 11:33 pm

The shavings was something new to this oil change. I did polish the intake and exhaust... maybe cleaned them good. I think there is a good chance that got into the block. Or... I was cutting some metal. That could have gotten in too. I saw no evidence of where it could have come from. I did check cam play. It was good. I didn’t check roundness of cylinder wall. I can do that tomorrow.

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AllisKidD21
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Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Feb 22, 2021 6:44 am

A bore guage will let you check the cylinder for out of round and taper, or take a top ring to and use it to check the ring end gap in the top and bottom of ring travel in the cylinder. You should be fine giving it a honing too, the oppys have cast iron cylinder sleeves.

What did you set your valve clearances to?

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PostSubject: Re: Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red.   Li'l Red 3.0? Growing up to be Red. - Page 4 Icon_minitime

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