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 [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."

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Rustbucket Garage
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FatMike
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PostSubject: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 5th 2022, 3:03 pm

My Craftsman INDY that is a bit rough but it has a running Briggs 18HP oppy horizontal and there is a lot of space under that hood which I'll need.
I have NO other parts for it as yet but I will be buying the two key components ASAP, I do have other tractors/parts laying around but nothing really usable for this other than a bunch of rusty nuts-bolts-springs and things.
(SIDE NOTE: bar keepers friend toilet bowl cleaner eats rust off of stuff in a short time, way WAY faster than navel jelly)

My plan is to use this tractor as a platform to test some idea's I have wanted to try hence the name right arrow  E.P.O.C. aka: experimental proof of concept.

I'll yank out the transaxle and replace it with a TEE shaped right angle gearbox.
Starting from the engine, will be a torque convertor that will go into a simple 2 speed chain/sprocket trans with reverse using 12volt PTO clutches used on gas salt spreaders which allows sprockets to be bolted on easily.
The front axle will get tossed and I'll try to use a sears suburban front axle but I may have to make one.
The front axle will also get a TEE shaped right angle gearbox so yes 4wd, probably to much traction as all wheels will be engaged all the time.(is there ever really TO MUCH traction Rolling Eyes )

The steering will need to be beefed up a bit.

It will get some other tires but the sizes will stay pretty close to stock so it should still look pretty much the same as now albeit aggressive tires and maybe fresh paint to attract the girls as if I'm not enough on my own. Laughing
[22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Indytr10

This project will allow me to try making heavy duty front spindles that will have U-joints on a stock sears suburban front axle.
I want to see how much abuse those right angle gearboxes can take and if I can remove the through shaft and use a 1" shaft out to the full width I need as the rear axle.
The 12volt PTO clutches will most likely fail but it will be interesting to see what they can do, I may have a sized section of chain with master link and sprockets set up just in case it fails.







I hope I did this right.


Last edited by FatMike on February 5th 2022, 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 5th 2022, 3:10 pm

[adm]Welcome to the build-off!
cheers [/adm]

_______________________________________________
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 5th 2022, 6:40 pm

Sounds like an interesting plan. What sort of pto are you talking about using by the way? I've seen a few different styles floating around.
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 5th 2022, 7:12 pm

WizardTuner wrote:
Sounds like an interesting plan. What sort of pto are you talking about using by the way? I've seen a few different styles floating around.

12volt salt spreader clutch pto (PTO Clutch Ogura 51509 Airflow A40032 Boss PMV1013, PMV0107 Salt Spreader)

These never fail on our mowers and we mow when it's snowing and soaking wet and mulching leaves oh the wires at the plug break often but the clutch itself rarely fails and the one on the gas salt spreader is coated with salt and road grime and works fine.

If these hold up to this test I'll make a bigger trans

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 5th 2022, 7:19 pm

Hey! I have one of them sitting in my garage. I was debating using it but I think I'm going shaft driven.
Let me know if you need it.

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FatMike
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 5th 2022, 7:40 pm

WizardTuner wrote:
Hey! I have one of them sitting in my garage. I was debating using it but I think I'm going shaft driven.
Let me know if you need it.

Thanks, i'll keep that in mind.

If these work the next project may have 9 of them.

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 6th 2022, 2:26 am

I saw a pic of this on facebook or somewhere. Pretty cool paint scheme. I read through the post explaining everything, but the power for the front axle will come first from the rear axle? In other words, the gearing will stay the same like automotive 4wd? If you can get that to work well, I think that would be the ideal setup for tractor 4wd. I would like to somehow make a light weight 4wd that's compact and use it on a higher speed tractor. All the 4wd builds I've seen so far use a whole second transaxle, and that really makes things complicated, heavy, and those all wheel steer knuckles don't hold up well either. One issue is finding small U-joints for the front end. But some atv axles and things should be available somewhere for that. Looking forward to seeing how this goes. Post lots of pics!

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 6th 2022, 5:30 am

mr.modified wrote:
I saw a pic of this on facebook or somewhere. Pretty cool paint scheme. I read through the post explaining everything, but the power for the front axle will come first from the rear axle? In other words, the gearing will stay the same like automotive 4wd? If you can get that to work well, I think that would be the ideal setup for tractor 4wd. I would like to somehow make a light weight 4wd that's compact and use it on a higher speed tractor. All the 4wd builds I've seen so far use a whole second transaxle, and that really makes things complicated, heavy, and those all wheel steer knuckles don't hold up well either. One issue is finding small U-joints for the front end. But some atv axles and things should be available somewhere for that. Looking forward to seeing how this goes. Post lots of pics!

Actually somewhere near the rear axle there will be a set of sprockets and chain that will correct the ratio's to spin the smaller front tires to match the larger rear tires.
The tires will look like stock tires in that they will be smaller up front and larger in the rear but the front tires will need to spin faster to keep up with the rear tires.

Starting at the front gearbox input shaft there will be a U-joint to allow the axle to pivot then a shaft will connect to the trans output shaft with a U-joint.
The trans output shafts should be a bit up in the frame at this point and the rear trans output shaft should extend towards the rear gearbox up to the final ratio correcting chain/sprockets at the rear gearbox. Having enough space to correct the ratio's is a bit of concern but I will have to gather up enough parts to see how close it is.

The trans will be a 2 speed with reverse and also act as the transfer case just to see if it will even work.

I'm trying to make it as compact as possible and the gearbox's are rated for 40HP with a max input speed of 1800rpm's which is about 3 to 5 times faster than you'd want to spin a 22"-26" tire.
A 25" tire spinning at 1800RPM's will get you close to 134MPH affraid , if the engine can push it and there is little to no resistance but I'm not interested in going anywhere that fast on a lawn tractor.

If the 12volt clutches work I could have a trans ranging from granny gears to pretty much whatever top speed I want as long as the engine can push it and it all holds up.
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[22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Empty
PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 6th 2022, 12:17 pm

134MPH… I’d pay 10 bucks to see that!
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 6th 2022, 1:09 pm

Nevadablue wrote:
134MPH… I’d pay 10 bucks to see that!

I might be able to make it, I wouldn't drive it affraid

I should be ordering at least one gearbox and one PTO clutch but right now i just don't care, the week of plowing wiped me out.
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 6th 2022, 1:47 pm

Now I’m wondering what would happen if somebody were to plow snow with a lawn tractor at 134 mph. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 6th 2022, 9:58 pm

very interesting can't wait to see this come to fruition ! good looking mower with that indy 500 edition ! never seen one of those.
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 9th 2022, 12:46 am

This drawing came from surplus center it shows the dimensions of the gearboxes I plan to use.
I will order one in the next few days so I can start on the front axle.

It might be tight fit with it at 11" wide.

[22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Righta10

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 10th 2022, 10:28 pm

i was thinking of using something like that a while back. and was looking at a t-box on a Dixie chopper. it connects the two hydro pumps together. idk if it would be heavy duty enough or not. and weather it would be cheaper  than what you are looking at.
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 10th 2022, 10:50 pm

diddie wrote:
i was thinking of using something like that a while back. and was looking at a t-box on a Dixie chopper. it connects the two hydro pumps together. idk if it would be heavy duty enough or not. and weather it would be cheaper  than what you are looking at.

The gearbox I'm ordering this friday is rated for 40HP but also made in china Rolling Eyes and I wonder if it will break under the strain but I have to try it to see maybe they will be good. $139 on EBAY.

On the rear axle it will most likely be in between two 1" axles and the shafts will be coupled with a chain and sprocket coupler.

After thinking about this project more and more i'm thinking i may have to correct the front/rear final ratio's in the trans.

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 10th 2022, 11:00 pm

i'd say you got your work cut out for you on the front/rear ratio's. beyond me !!
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 11th 2022, 4:54 am

diddie wrote:
i'd say you got your work cut out for you on the front/rear ratio's. beyond me !!
The ratio difference is not as difficult as it seems it really comes down to finding a tire and sprocket ratio combo that matches up the closest, getting the exact same ratio is dependent on the tires mainly because tires seem to vary in actual outside diameter.

So I will have to have the tires I will be using mounted to the rims I will be using and inflated properly to measure the actual overall tire diameter to calculate the needed sprocket ratio to allow the smaller front tires to spin fast enough to keep up with the rear tires.

This is a fun site to play with. https://www.blocklayer.com/surface-speedeng.aspx

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 11th 2022, 1:56 pm

i'll have to check that out! thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 12th 2022, 3:54 pm

So I finally got a gearbox ordered along with a 12 volt salt spreader pto clutch, they won't be here for over a week.[22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." 200.gif?cid=cc7a231cxtt7n2q998mdopb32snipqph2i6sjlt16u2kmkzm&rid=200

Some of you might be thinking.....[22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." 200.gif?cid=cc7a231cpht9czm666b2fid6b2rx74uvb6x39thcfv7ojo6a&rid=200 if so sorry.

The good thing is once I get the gearbox I can grab a front axle and start messing around with it enough to see how things fit together.

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 12th 2022, 3:55 pm

This is one interesting build. Maybe work on something else to keep us entertained while we ALL wait. Grin

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 13th 2022, 6:21 pm

So I had a minute and went out and removed this front axle off my sears 12 since it looks just about the same as the ss16 axle and easier to remove.
In looking at these axles it just seems like a gearbox can fit right under the axle and the output shafts will line up with the front wheel axles.
[22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Fronta11


As shown in my lame example below. [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." 1f60b

Yes I will lose 4" of ground clearance but I feel the addition of 4WD will more than compensate besides I will probably have 20" tires up front and a rock guard.
[22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Fronta10
NOTE:(gearbox drawing may not be to scale).


So those stock spindles will be set aside and I will have to make new ones that go from top to bottom with a removable kingpin and then have a tube for the hub bearings. My plan is the use 8" golf cart wheels and golf cart hubs and turn the hubs down a little on the lathe to fit bearings over them and then bearings into the tubes that are part of the welded spindle assembly.

The tube where the shaft goes through on the spindle will be turned down to fit the bearings so the bearings have a stop inside and are greaseable and the driveshaft will have a U-joint welded on the inside end and the wheel end be a 1" the reduces to 3/4".

So the weight on the front will be as close as I can get it to the wheels and supported on bearings at the hub itself.

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 13th 2022, 8:44 pm

I am starting to like this rig... I was thinking though, what if you bought a transaxle off a tractor with 4 wheel steer and put the transaxle on the front... just a thought?

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 13th 2022, 8:52 pm

TechnoChicken wrote:
I am starting to like this rig... I was thinking though, what if you bought a transaxle off a tractor with 4 wheel steer and put the transaxle on the front... just a thought?

I had thought about that but it has been done so I wanted to try a different route.

This is really a test rig, I have a far more intense rig planned if this has a good outcome.
I may have to get with some other riders and let them thrash on it a bit more than I would we'll see, I got to get it built first.

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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 14th 2022, 7:10 am

Where has that been done? can you throw up a link of some sort?
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PostSubject: Re: [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C."   [22 BO] FatMikes Craftsman INDY "E.P.O.C." Icon_minitimeFebruary 14th 2022, 8:07 am

TechnoChicken wrote:
Where has that been done? can you throw up a link of some sort?

Jason Kahler’s 2019 BO Entry ‘Hondax4’

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