All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum

Like riding lawn tractors through mud, woods, rocks, and snow? Then this is the place for you! Share your ideas, Post your projects and more!
 
PortalHomeSearchRegisterLog inBuild-OffTop Tractor Challenge
Welcome to the All Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum! . . .
2020 Build-off Started, Look for entry instructions HERE! . . .
New Top Tractor Challenge and Build-Off Profile Buttons on the menu bar! . . .
2019 Build-Off Winners . . . 1-AllisKidD21 . . . 2-Offroad Mudmowers . . . 3-MightyRaze . . . Close vote, all were winners!

 

 4x4 lawntractor

Go down 
AuthorMessage
dangeroustoys56
Expert
Expert
dangeroustoys56

Age : 49
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 1726
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Florida, USA

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2010 2:30 pm

About a year ago i saw someone on another site building a 4x4 lawntractor- it was sorta cobbled together ( looked like itd fall apart actually) - he used a peerless with the lower input/side sprocket to a jackshaft and ran two chains- one to the front ( with a differental axle) and a straight rear axle , to steer he used large ujoints and a 'cage' to keep em together and used 4 large rear tires on it- thing was lifted up about 3-4 feet.

I saw another 4x4- cept this was really low ( the guy used it for plowing) - his was able to disconnect the front axle with a lever .

I keep pondering with a 4x4 idea that might work- id like to use my GT6000, run the horizontal shaft 20 onan( unless it winds up on something else) use the 4 large rear tires ( with a moderate lift).

The plan would be to use the side input wheelhorse trans up front, with ujoints on the ends to steer ( could do that on the stock rear n make 4 wheel steer actually) - run two shift levers up near the dash ( has the normal gears and a hi/low trans- just like the stock trans) - the trick would be to mount the trans to run in the right direction, and mount the engine sideways. Another trick would be to use the stock deck engagement clutch to turn on and off the front trans ( might need to use a chain for it instead of a belt) - the added benefits would be to shift the front trans into neutral for 2 wheel drive , while the other pulley runs the stock trans.

Basically shift nearly on the fly..... right now i have too many projects to deal with - sometime id like to work on it and take it mudding somewhere- itd be huge. I think with AG or atv tires or chains itd be nearly unstoppable.

Ideas/ suggestions?
Back to top Go down
Webmaster
Webmaster
Webmaster
Webmaster

Age : 10
Join date : 2010-02-09
Posts : 332
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Here!

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2010 3:19 pm

I dont really know much about how you want to rig it up, as I haven't had much experience with those horz. shaft units. But it sounds like it would be strong enough. It would be heavy though. I would try it, I just don't have the $$ to invest in all the parts.

Also, I do remember the post you are talking about where the guy ran a double sprocket and two chains, one to each axle... I also remember seeing a video of him driving it, doing 4wd donuts in a lil bit of snow. It was lifted really high and was sorta unstable looking, but I'll give credit where it's due! That being said, I remember that post, it was on that OTHER site; and the admin guy there has a powertrip-ego-complex-thing, and deleted the whole post and everything because he though it was totally unsafe... I think thats a little extreem. I've even seen posts on there asking him to repost it because it really had some good ideas in there.

end rant.... lol

O well... Thats why were here.
Back to top Go down
http://ww.atltf.com
Chunk
Veteran
Veteran
Chunk

Age : 28
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 779
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Angus, Scotland

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2010 5:32 pm

It'c cool you brought this subject up! I think this is one of those ideas that has been toyed around with by many people, but no one has ever really got as far as making a fully functional, and reliable way to do it.

I've alwyas thought about mounthing a peerless 800 series (i think that's the one with the 1" shafts) or even any lawn tractor tranny, sideway, in the middle of the tractor. The having drive shafts to the front as rear, with a 2 RAGB's and then a diff on the front. It's alot of work, but to be honest it shoudlnt be too hard with the right parts. As fearless said, money is an issue for me too. It would definatly be unstoppable for sure though.

And I'll try not to get into a rant, but that's exactly why I wanted to make a new forum instead of that OTHER site. There's alot of good ideas that have been deleted just because it was deemed 'unsafe'. Least it could be kept up. But Im gonna leave it at that.

Back to the subject, I really would like someone to try this. I can't get hold of tractors easily, or for cheap, so I cant do it without money. But someone who might have a bunch of old tractors lying about could maybe try and work something out, this is something I really want to see happen. How about, as an incentive, the first person to make a good working 4wd tractor gets...a cookie? Hey, its worth a try!
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/csakvids
dangeroustoys56
Expert
Expert
dangeroustoys56

Age : 49
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 1726
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Florida, USA

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeSun Feb 14, 2010 8:15 pm

What kind of cookie? LOL!

Id definitly try n build it , i just want to build the wheelhorse, MTD n wizard first ( my need for speed come first- LOL!) - my nephew says he knows where some mud is around his house - i dunno maybe later this year IF i can buy those berings for the trans , figure out a way to mount it and make it shift and get my 20 HP onan going- id say the rest wouldnt be too bad to build...... i kept eyeballing the wheelhorse trans because of the 1" axle and the flanges that bolt right up to the craftsman wheels ( i have the wheelhorse rear wheels on the GT6000 now actually)- its a beefy gear driven trans.

More i think about it- i think the WH trans has a pulley on the same side as the GT's- id need to use the 'normal' output side of the motor to a jackshaft, then run back to the trans- the clutch side would still drive the front.

Id need to support the 'ujoint' cage from the chassis ( i think that guy welded his to the lifted supports)- i would NOT scrimp on building a monster like that and waste my cash- itd be built right and strong- mine wouldnt be lifted even half as high - maybe about 6" to a foot- to make some lift and room for stuff under it.


Yeah i hear y about that 'other site' - was the one thing that kept me from joining. Basic saftey is understandable ( helmits, brakes, ect) - ill need to look for a tether setup, also considered a seat switch actually.

I have the quantity of tractors to tinker with- just most i want to keep stock as mowers- i really dont have a need for alot of modifed tractors actually- the wizard will be for fun and maybe future speed monger, the wheelhorse is a plain hot rod rat rod- the MTD im sorta building for my nephew to run around with when he comes over- or id take it over to family events.

If i build the 4x4 - thatd be mud bogging only ( if/where i could find some) with an ocassional run around the yard - who knows, meybe spiff it up and take it to shows with the restored MTD lowes machine?
Back to top Go down
arild365
Apprentice
Apprentice
arild365

Age : 25
Join date : 2010-02-11
Posts : 320
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Canada, BC

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2010 12:38 pm

they have those yard man tractors with the all wheel steering so why couldnt you take the rear end out of that and attach it to the frontt of a basic mower and find a way to connect the drive pulley for the deck to run the front end
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/user/arild365
dangeroustoys56
Expert
Expert
dangeroustoys56

Age : 49
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 1726
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Florida, USA

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2010 3:25 pm

Arild365: Yepper- i actually have one that im going to restore - a 95 MTD 'lowes team racing' edition.

Heres a pic of it:
4x4 lawntractor 11812911

MTD transaxles arent really that strong of a unit- even tho its a forward/neutral/reverse unit ( actual transmission is in the varible pulley setup) - i dont think it could handle the stress of off roading , definitly not any serious speed either. I suppose if someone had 2 of them and wanted it for light duty trail riding/offroading itd be fine.

Building the GT6000 id want to build it as heavy duty as i can - i dont want any breakages. The other part im looking at is the side inputs on the transmissions- be easier to hook up from the horizontal shaft motor.

Wheelhorse and The GT transmissions are super heavy duty units able to handle the mud/offroading.
Back to top Go down
Chunk
Veteran
Veteran
Chunk

Age : 28
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 779
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Angus, Scotland

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2010 4:38 pm

@arild365 wrote:
they have those yard man tractors with the all wheel steering so why couldnt you take the rear end out of that and attach it to the frontt of a basic mower and find a way to connect the drive pulley for the deck to run the front end

Plus they dont have a very good turning radius. They're only supposed to work in conjuntion with the front. Shame they didnt turn tighter really!
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/csakvids
arild365
Apprentice
Apprentice
arild365

Age : 25
Join date : 2010-02-11
Posts : 320
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Canada, BC

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2010 5:31 pm

i see what you guys mean
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/user/arild365
dangeroustoys56
Expert
Expert
dangeroustoys56

Age : 49
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 1726
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Florida, USA

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2010 6:32 pm

Actually Chunk- it turns pretty tight, almost like a zero turn. I had it out a while back doing donuts with it- once i get it wired , ill grab a video of it.
Back to top Go down
Chunk
Veteran
Veteran
Chunk

Age : 28
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 779
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Angus, Scotland

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeSat Feb 27, 2010 4:28 am

@dangeroustoys56 wrote:
Actually Chunk- it turns pretty tight, almost like a zero turn. I had it out a while back doing donuts with it- once i get it wired , ill grab a video of it.
I actually meant the rear end alone doesnt turn very tight. Unles Im mistaken, I've never owned one, just going by what Ive seen on the interweb.

I've been really thinking about this AWD tractor. I would acutally be pretty easy to do with the correct parts, albeit expensive.

As for RAGBs, which I'd use at least one on a 4wd tractor (shaft driven front), I was toying with the idea if using old spider gears from a tranny. Making bearing houseings etc shouldnt be hard. Would be a HELL of alot cheaper than buying on if you made it right.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/csakvids
dangeroustoys56
Expert
Expert
dangeroustoys56

Age : 49
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 1726
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Florida, USA

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeSat Feb 27, 2010 8:00 am

Someone on the hot rod toyz site sed to use 2 axles with the gears out of an old transmission - use beings behind em- id say use some angle or square tubing to mount the berings in an ' L ' shape- maybe weld a angle brace as well across them , then build a box out of spare metal ( id say weld all the sides but one ( as a inspection hatch) - drill a hole in that for a fill /breather- only thing i see is youd need to get some oil seals that fit the axles. I REALLY want to build one sometime n try it. I coulda bot a bush hog for $200- didnt think spending that much for a RAGB was worth it. I know alot of the large decked cubs and JD's have those RAGB's - like 50" .

Ill make a video of its construction when i get around to it- LOL- have the perfect canadate with the wrecked rear axle from the LT11 sitting outside my shed....

The AWD tractor is pretty cool - be a lil tough to build tho, unless y came across a couple really small 4x4 auto axles ( like off a samuri? ) - need some shortening and lil modifying - itd be a cool machine.
Back to top Go down
Chunk
Veteran
Veteran
Chunk

Age : 28
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 779
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Angus, Scotland

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeSat Feb 27, 2010 11:09 am

Funny you mentioned the Samuri. My neighbour and I were talking about that literally half oan hour ago. He had two, wrote both of them off. Doesnt have them any more though unfortunaly. Needed to money for a new car. They would be awesome off road. Espeically when you stripped them back to basics.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/csakvids
dangeroustoys56
Expert
Expert
dangeroustoys56

Age : 49
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 1726
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Florida, USA

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeSun Feb 28, 2010 4:18 am

Actually i was thinking mounting the drivetrain ( slightly modifed) onto a lawntractor - using the axles n transfer case- heck even the motor for that fact- would make an awsome off road tractor.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2010 10:58 am

right i want to take this topic back up as i am considering it for my next project, my only thought at the moment is how the steering would work?

ideas?!
Back to top Go down
Jonny Briggs
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Join date : 2010-12-14
Posts : 23
Forum Rep : 0

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeTue Dec 14, 2010 7:14 am

Hi

Im liking this forum, been reading posts with interest.

I have been thinking about the 4wd tractor and if you wanted to disengage the front wheels from the middle driven transaxle, you would have to find a way to lock that axle otherwise all the power would go to the disengaged end and not to the driven rear wheels.

This is assumed that the easiest way would be to mount a transaxle running horizontally down the chassis, then 2 axle/ diff set up for front and rear wheels.

Another thought would be to use a horizontal shaft engine, linked to a torque converter that then drives the middle transaxle? This then would eliminate the clutch belt problems??

Jonny
Back to top Go down
dangeroustoys56
Expert
Expert
dangeroustoys56

Age : 49
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 1726
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Florida, USA

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeTue Dec 14, 2010 8:36 am

Bigbleuboy: Using a regular tractor trans and making it steer? Youd use ujoints on the axle ends- then have to make some sort of bering cage ( to support both sides of the ujoints with berings) and somehow figure out linkages ( most likely a direct steer setup) to actually turn the wheels. Its probably be best to hack a lil bit of the transmissions axle ends off in order to mount the front wheels with a keyway .

Jonny Briggs: Easiest way using two standard transmissions for a 4x4 is to use and electric clutch for the lower of the center 3 stacked pulley ( top one for motor belt- middle for rear transmission and bottom for the front) and using a verticle shaft motor - the rear transmission could be locked - the front would need to stay original to actually steer the tractor. Problem with a setup like that is limited ground clearance, unless larger wheels are used.

Probably further back in this thread i mentioned a horizontal twin motor mounted sideways - striaght driven side goes to a standard rear GT transmission ( in my case - itd be a 3 hi/3 low side input trans) - the other side would use the exisiting electric deck clutch to drive a 69 wheelhorse side input 3 hi/3low trans up front ( mounted the same way as if on the rear)- ground clearance would be from using 4 rear GT tires on it . I say its a 4x4- actually not, due to the differential action of the front trans- unless a temporary wheel lock could be figured out. To disnegage the front trans, flip a switch to turn the clutch off, put it in neutral and instant 2 wheel drive.

Back to top Go down
Jamus
Skilled
Skilled
Jamus

Age : 40
Join date : 2010-06-28
Posts : 511
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Southern WV

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeTue Dec 14, 2010 12:32 pm

I got two more ideas that just came to me after reading this.

1. 4 individual hydraulic motors, one for each wheel, and pivot motor/hub/wheel for steering. This could allow 4-wheel steering easily also. I recently got to check out how a Dixie Chopper is built. The same principle could be applied here. Lawnmower motor running a hydraulic pump.

2. 2 axles from an electric golf cart and add u-joints to the front one to make a steering unit. Actually, some golfcarts use modified Ford 9" axles, which could easily be converted to a steering axle with junkyard D44 knuckles and "C"s. Add 2 short side GM 10-bolt front shafts which are also 28 spline and you really wouldn't need any custom machined parts. You'd also get fullsize hydraulic brakes in the process. Also I have been wondering, could you run 3 truck alternators off a lawnmower engine to power the golf cart motors at 36V?
Back to top Go down
http://www.rcbashers.com
Jonny Briggs
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Join date : 2010-12-14
Posts : 23
Forum Rep : 0

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeTue Dec 14, 2010 1:17 pm

I see what you mean with the belts, but I was thinking more on the lines of having just one complete transaxle gearbox, then strip down 2 others to get the axle and differential. Then drive the diffs from the middle transaxle, this way you would only have one gear shifter, but It would mean the tractor would be in 4wd all the time.

Jonny
Back to top Go down
dangeroustoys56
Expert
Expert
dangeroustoys56

Age : 49
Join date : 2010-02-10
Posts : 1726
Forum Rep : 0
Location : Florida, USA

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeTue Dec 14, 2010 7:57 pm

Jamus: A guy on YT already did that- he used one of those z turns, hooked up two more hydraulic motors up front and made a 4x4 tractor - check this out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN92bwjVUmM

Be easier to convert the tractor to a gas engine instead of electric on a golf kart- thats alot of weight in batteries - you would most likely only need one alternator- off a newer car- they put out a ton of amps.

Jonny Briggs: In that case, itd be easier to do a setup i saw on a forum a while back - the guy used a peerless 700 trans in the middle - ran a chain to a jack shaft, mounted 2 sprockets on it- ran one to a straight axle in the back and the other to a axle in the front containing a differential - then he used a 'bering cage' for the u joints on the front. In his case he lifted it several feet off the ground and had chain problems .
Back to top Go down
Jonny Briggs
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Join date : 2010-12-14
Posts : 23
Forum Rep : 0

4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitimeWed Dec 15, 2010 4:21 am

I bet there was problems with the chains, there's a fair bit to tension correctly. I would hopefully use the axles that come out of the driven transaxle as propshafts, just a case of getting the drive from these to the diffs at either end.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




4x4 lawntractor Empty
PostSubject: Re: 4x4 lawntractor   4x4 lawntractor Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
4x4 lawntractor
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum :: Technical Forum :: Drivetrain & Brake Tech :: Transaxles and Transmissions-
Jump to: