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 Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?

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TheEquineFencer
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:40 am

@crafsmankiller wrote:
it would work if you rotated it on the axles, then the pulley would be lower. i just got a idea that this would be great for a lowrider!!

Did I just hear a light come on or what?
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crafsmankiller
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:47 am

i think i heard it too.
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TheEquineFencer
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:49 am

LOL
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Thunderdivine
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:18 pm

Hmm, now I'm confused. You mean you can flip it without altering anything else and that it's running the same way right? Well then I think you're wrong. Tho unsure, wish I had some Technics Lego beside me lol
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:35 pm

Draw an arrow on a lid, the same way as clockwise, now lift the lid so you watch it from underneath, you will see it needs to go counterclockwise to have the arrow moving forward.

Or am I missing something here???!
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Chopperhed
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:45 pm

The stock FNR out of my MTD would work fine for this application. All straight cut gears and same ratio forward and reverse.

Its grease filled so lube isn't an issue.

it would work in any position.

Rotate the transaxle 90 deg and use it with a horizontal shaft engine
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Thunderdivine
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:46 pm

@Chopperhed wrote:
The stock FNR out of my MTD would work fine for this application. All straight cut gears and same ratio forward and reverse.

Its grease filled so lube isn't an issue.

it would work in any position.

Rotate the transaxle 90 deg and use it with a horizontal shaft engine

Yeah, is that strong? 20hp capable?
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crafsmankiller
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:32 pm

Any trans would work. Think of it this way disbelievers. The pulley spin clockwise relative to the top of the tranny. Now flip it on the axle and spin the pulley clockwise, your still going the same direction. The only hurdle to jump would be twisting the belt and the shift linkage.
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Chopperhed
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:36 pm

@Thunderdivine wrote:
@Chopperhed wrote:
The stock FNR out of my MTD would work fine for this application. All straight cut gears and same ratio forward and reverse.

Its grease filled so lube isn't an issue.

it would work in any position.

Rotate the transaxle 90 deg and use it with a horizontal shaft engine

Yeah, is that strong? 20hp capable?

I know its used on tractors up to 18 hp.

Is it strong enough for muddin, can't say for sure.
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TheEquineFencer
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:04 pm

@Thunderdivine wrote:
Draw an arrow on a lid, the same way as clockwise, now lift the lid so you watch it from underneath, you will see it needs to go counterclockwise to have the arrow moving forward.

Or am I missing something here???!

yep you're missing something. If you just turn it over, let's saymove the right wheel side to the left wheel side 180* verticle flip, it will run backwards, but then rotate the rear end horizonally 180*, it now runs the right direction.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:05 pm

Basically, put it in upside down and backwards. What was at the rear end is now at the front end, just upside down.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:11 pm

Upside down and backwards?
I didnt think of it that way. but you still gotta figure out a shifter linkage
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:14 pm

@crafsmankiller wrote:
Any trans would work. Think of it this way disbelievers. The pulley spin clockwise relative to the top of the tranny. Now flip it on the axle and spin the pulley clockwise, your still going the same direction. The only hurdle to jump would be twisting the belt and the shift linkage.

If you need to twist the belt it's not spinning the same way is it. Cus if you need to twist the belt you are actually changing the rotation :p
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:16 pm

@TheEquineFencer wrote:
Basically, put it in upside down and backwards. What was at the rear end is now at the front end, just upside down.

That won't. Change a thing.
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crafsmankiller
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:42 pm

If all you did was flip it on the axles, the pulley would spin counter-clockwise, hence twisting the nelt to get the pulley spinning clockwise
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Tractor Man Jeff
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:48 pm

This is ridiculous guys. Any one got a spare tranny laying around?
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:46 pm

@Tractor Man Jeff wrote:
This is ridiculous guys. Any one got a spare tranny laying around?


LOL ! I agree, you don't twist a belt.
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif
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Tractor Man Jeff
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:50 pm

Thank you my friend and nice build. No more of this bantering back and forth. Y'all look at this picture and that's your answer.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:14 pm

I thought it was reasonable the way I drew the picture. I've not built one with this setup yet, but that is what I'm going to use on the one I'm planning . To the poster that's worried about the linkage; Well if you're smart enough to get the transaxle installed and running the right direction, I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out how to make it shift. It'll take someone besides me saying it'll work for the others to see the light. When the light does come on it'll burn bright!
I guess they would get wound up if I tell then how to supercharge a motor with a OEM Chevrolet smog pump and have it work right. The rest of the guys in an old Yahoo chat group though the guy was asking "stuipid" questions and was joking. His post sounded real so I indulged him and found out he was serious. I then explained the basic problem he was having. As he increased the intake air pressure with the smog pump he was overiding the static fuel pressure from his tank. He needed to either increase his static fuel pressure, pressurize his tank;NOT recomminded; or add a fuel pump with a boost referanced fuel pressure regulator. That way as his boost went up, his fuel pressure would rise with it. His next problem was limiting boost then getting the increased Air/Fuel ratio right. He added an electric fuel pump and an off the shelf regulator with the vent hole connected to a line going to the inlet side of the carb for referance. He built an air box around the whole carb and used a radiator cap to limit boost, then played with the jetting. He has/had it on a 12HP Kohler on a pulling mower and hid the smog pump behind the engine under the dash belt overdriven 2-1. He said after he figured out how to keep the engine togather, it worked great. I remember him saying he split the engine a few times until he reinforced it with bolts and plating to keep the crank where it was supposed to be.
I'm going to give this a rest for a while and let folks figure it out on thier own, I've planted the seed, now I'm going to sit and watch it grow.
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Stretch44875
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:45 pm

There are two ways to flip it, one with the shifter and pulley in front of the axle, one with it behind the axle.

You could do the same with the transaxle upright, spin it around to where the shifter and pulley are behind the axles.

Don't really want to use my brain at the moment, so not sure which way equals which rotation.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:57 pm

Actually its true using a MTD FNR trans would work upside down - theyre a single gear trans axle - thats why theres only a FNR lever on the actual trans.

The other thing is if you put it in high gear in forward , then reverse, its the same speed both ways BUT if its flipped , forward would be reverse, then reverse would be forward.

The best thing about MTD transaxles is the FNR lever is on the side of the transaxle case - so it wont matter either way its mounted , it just goes in and out of the trans one direction - sideways, not in a 1/4 circle pattern like normal manual trans missions.

The only stickler is how fast it can go - the stock variable pulley and linkages detirmine the speed - if the variable pulley were removed, to govern 'speed' would need to done with a foot clutch ( youd need to ride the clutch constantly) or make some sort of notch setup to have set 'gears'.

The only issue with MTD transaxles is the grease, it cant splash over the gears like oil - even packed full- youd need to put seals in all shaft/axle openings to keep it from leaking out - if just grease is used, it will whine horribly ( yep- most of my plain stock one do already - even with fresh grease).


Manual transmissions flipped ( racers have done it) they need to mounted in the same orientation as stock - or youll be going in reverse, not forward, plus those gears are designed for specific speed ranges only.


You can lower a regular trans in a tractor in normal position - you just need a jackshaft to raise the belt higher:

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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:55 am

Yall have drove me to it. Im gonna try it
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:39 am

@TheEquineFencer wrote:
I thought it was reasonable the way I drew the picture. I've not built one with this setup yet, but that is what I'm going to use on the one I'm planning . To the poster that's worried about the linkage; Well if you're smart enough to get the transaxle installed and running the right direction, I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out how to make it shift. It'll take someone besides me saying it'll work for the others to see the light. When the light does come on it'll burn bright!
I guess they would get wound up if I tell then how to supercharge a motor with a OEM Chevrolet smog pump and have it work right. The rest of the guys in an old Yahoo chat group though the guy was asking "stuipid" questions and was joking. His post sounded real so I indulged him and found out he was serious. I then explained the basic problem he was having. As he increased the intake air pressure with the smog pump he was overiding the static fuel pressure from his tank. He needed to either increase his static fuel pressure, pressurize his tank;NOT recomminded; or add a fuel pump with a boost referanced fuel pressure regulator. That way as his boost went up, his fuel pressure would rise with it. His next problem was limiting boost then getting the increased Air/Fuel ratio right. He added an electric fuel pump and an off the shelf regulator with the vent hole connected to a line going to the inlet side of the carb for referance. He built an air box around the whole carb and used a radiator cap to limit boost, then played with the jetting. He has/had it on a 12HP Kohler on a pulling mower and hid the smog pump behind the engine under the dash belt overdriven 2-1. He said after he figured out how to keep the engine togather, it worked great. I remember him saying he split the engine a few times until he reinforced it with bolts and plating to keep the crank where it was supposed to be.
I'm going to give this a rest for a while and let folks figure it out on thier own, I've planted the seed, now I'm going to sit and watch it grow.

You are wrong my good sir, try it out with a round lid like I said before, and imagine your the engine running one way and one way only. Do it, do it. And I'm not discussion FNR's and other straight cut gears. If you flip and spin it it should still rotate the wrong, since you flipped it, it don't change rotation from the spin, but in the flip. Like he said you would have to flip the belt....... Basketball
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:05 pm

Sorry mate, I disagreed with him on this and got egg on my face. Let me try to help.

If you flip it over (pulley on the bottom, front of transmission still facing front), the transmission is now running backwards. On this you are correct (as was I). You now have one gear forward and whatever number of forward gears you had going backward.

Now, when you spin the axle 180 degrees, the transmission is still being driven backward (nothing has changed here), but the tires, turning in the same direction with regards to the transmission, are now turning forward with regards to the tractor.

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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:42 pm

@TheRainbowBoxer wrote:
Sorry mate, I disagreed with him on this and got egg on my face. Let me try to help.

If you flip it over (pulley on the bottom, front of transmission still facing front), the transmission is now running backwards. On this you are correct (as was I). You now have one gear forward and whatever number of forward gears you had going backward.

Now, when you spin the axle 180 degrees, the transmission is still being driven backward (nothing has changed here), but the tires, turning in the same direction with regards to the transmission, are now turning forward with regards to the tractor.

No he don't mean with changing gears, not his first post anyways.
Even his drawing is wrong, cus on his 2nd stage when it's flipped he has it running the same way but it should be the opposite way, and this is doing my head in, we need to see this in irl, and I don't have a damn transaxle to try it on lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it possible to "flip " a transaxle?   Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:08 pm

I had to have my brain mostly uncoupled (IE just barely awake) to understand he was right.
There are 4 ways you could mount a transmission. All 4 of the following scenarios are starting with the transmission in stock location and orientation, and assume you work out the mounting, linkage, belt alignment, and that the belt is not being twisted to reverse rotation:

A. Stock mounting position. The pulley is on the top, the front of the transmission is facing front.
1. The transmission is being run "forward".
2. The tires will carry the tractor in the stock direction.

B. Spin the transmission 180 so the left tire swaps places with the right. The pulley still on top, the front of the transmission is now facing back -
1. The transmission is still being run "forward".
2. The tires will carry the tractor in the opposite direction from stock.

C. Flip the transmission over so that the left tire swaps places with the right. The front of the trans is still front, pulley is now on bottom -
1. The transmission is being run in reverse.
2. The tires will carry the tractor in the opposite direction from stock.

D. Flip the transmission over in the same rotation as the tires turn. The front of the trans is now facing the back, the pulley is on the bottom -
1. This is equivalent to doing both A & B.
2. The transmission is being run in reverse.
3. The tires will carry the tractor in the stock direction.


Mind = blown LOL

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