All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum

Like riding lawn tractors through mud, woods, rocks, and snow? Then this is the place for you! Share your ideas, Post your projects and more!
 
PortalHomeSite RulesEventsFAQSearchRegisterLog inBuild-Off

 

 Everything Transaxle-need help

Go down 
+2
greener179
BUV
6 posters
AuthorMessage
BUV
New Member

New Member


Join date : 2012-11-14
Points : 4129
Posts : 3

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 14th 2012, 6:55 pm

I am in the process of designing and building a F-N-R utility vehicle and am currently looking for info on transaxles to use. I am looking for something that can run off of a 10-13 hp engine with 3600 rpm output connected to a CVT. I need the transaxle to be able to handle an output torque of about 2000 ft-lb. And I am also looking to have a max speed of 20 mph while the vehicle is unloaded on 18-20 inch tires. Preferably, I am looking to use one that has a Horizontal input shaft but am open to ones with vertical inputs. I have looked at the Peerless 820 series transaxle, but the rated torque (450 ft-lb) is too low (not sure what it really is capable of). Is there anyway to modify the 820 to be more heavy duty? I am also curious with this model if it is possibly to modify the gearing of it to have different ratios.
I have heard the 855 series is a bit more capable then the 820 for heavy loads, but do not know what the specifics of it are.

Thank you for any information and help.
Back to top Go down
greener179
Member
greener179
Member


Join date : 2012-05-31
Points : 4732
Posts : 398

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2012, 12:06 am

How are you going to get 2000 ft. Lbs. Of torgue with a 10-13 hp engine
Back to top Go down
Chopperhed
Moderator
Chopperhed
Moderator

500+ Posts
500+ Posts

Age : 57
Join date : 2012-10-14
Points : 4988
Posts : 801
Location : Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Eh!

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2012, 12:41 am

For 2000 Ft lbs of torque you would need a full size tractor axle, Or a highway tractor driveline.

A 13 hp honda puts out abot 20 ft/lbs. A race prepped chevy 454 puts out about 600 ft pounds,

Back to top Go down
http://http:\\members.shaw.ca\ducksgarage
CornishMorgan
Member

Member


Join date : 2012-06-10
Points : 4603
Posts : 302

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2012, 8:13 am

What your asking is next to impossible with a lawn tractor. Chopperhed is right, you'll need a full size tractor (and a big one at that) to be able to get anywhere near 2000 ft lb torque. Example, the Case Magnum 305 produces 1750 ft lb and that's with a 6 cylinder, 9000cc, turbocharged, 255hp diesel engine. There is not chance your getting 2000 ft lb from a small single or twin cylinder like a 13hp.
Back to top Go down
Stretch44875
Administrator
Stretch44875
Administrator

500+ Posts
500+ Posts

Age : 49
Join date : 2012-04-05
Points : 5435
Posts : 959
Location : Mansfield, Ohio

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2012, 1:13 pm

It's pretty easy to get 2000ft-lbs out of a 20 ft-lb engine. Use a gearbox with a 1000 to 1 ratio. It will spin 3.6 rpm's per min, at 3600rpm engine speed. Your not going to get anywhere very quickly...
Back to top Go down
Chopperhed
Moderator
Chopperhed
Moderator

500+ Posts
500+ Posts

Age : 57
Join date : 2012-10-14
Points : 4988
Posts : 801
Location : Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Eh!

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2012, 6:56 pm

Stretch44875 wrote:
It's pretty easy to get 2000ft-lbs out of a 20 ft-lb engine. Use a gearbox with a 1000 to 1 ratio. It will spin 3.6 rpm's per min, at 3600rpm engine speed. Your not going to get anywhere very quickly...

That would do it but you would still need a huge differential to handle it. 2000 ft/lbs on a 3/4 Inch or 1 inch shaft will twist it like licorice, if it didn't snap outright. It would also split a lawnmower transaxle into pieces.
Back to top Go down
http://http:\\members.shaw.ca\ducksgarage
dangeroustoys56
Veteran Member
dangeroustoys56
Veteran Member

1000+ Posts
1000+ Posts!

Age : 53
Join date : 2010-02-10
Points : 6810
Posts : 1726
Location : Florida, USA

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2012, 7:57 pm

Most lifted 'monster' tractors use the side input geared 6 speeds ( 3 hi/ 3 low) from older craftsman GT tractors and running truck tires - with a couple right angle gear boxes you could use driveshafts - wouldnt be easy or cheep.

Only way to get any sort of torque is to find a small diesel motor - those arent cheep either :
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_engines+diesel-engines
Back to top Go down
BUV
New Member

New Member


Join date : 2012-11-14
Points : 4129
Posts : 3

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2012, 8:49 pm

Thank you for all the replies and help! I did not even realize the outrageous number of the 2000 ft-lb output torque on the transaxle. I messed up the units in my calculation and the actual torque is 279 ft-lb.

So from the engine running at 3600 rpm to the 18in tires at 10 mph (186.7 rpm), the overall reduction would be 18:1.
So to get that, I am thinking of using a CVT with a 2.8:1 reduction and from that using a 820 series transaxle. This is where my problem is. The lowest reduction that Peerless has is about 12:1 and I am looking for it to be about 9:1.

Does anyone know how to change the gear reduction in the transaxle to get a 9:1, or is it also possible to directly drive the input shaft without using the pinion and bevel gear (or any other modifcations that can be done)? Also are there other options for transaxles that could be used. The weight of the vehicle fully loaded is probably going to be around 1900 lbs on the heavy side.

Thanks again for your patience and help.
Back to top Go down
Chopperhed
Moderator
Chopperhed
Moderator

500+ Posts
500+ Posts

Age : 57
Join date : 2012-10-14
Points : 4988
Posts : 801
Location : Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Eh!

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2012, 9:17 pm

Stretch44875 wrote:
It's pretty easy to get 2000ft-lbs out of a 20 ft-lb engine. Use a gearbox with a 1000 to 1 ratio. It will spin 3.6 rpm's per min, at 3600rpm engine speed. Your not going to get anywhere very quickly...

well you could go with ten 100:1 gearboxes, or 5 200:1 gearboxes, 20 50:1 gearboxes, or etc. No matter what the result will be as big as a locomotive.

Imagine the simplest option, a 4" pulley and a 250" pulley.

You see where I'm going with this

You can make a 1/2 HP electric motor pull a freight train, at about 1 inch a day
Back to top Go down
http://http:\\members.shaw.ca\ducksgarage
Stretch44875
Administrator
Stretch44875
Administrator

500+ Posts
500+ Posts

Age : 49
Join date : 2012-04-05
Points : 5435
Posts : 959
Location : Mansfield, Ohio

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 16th 2012, 3:15 pm

Rom's make different gearsets for the 820 transaxles. I am using the 25/25 set, two of them I made my own 20/30 sets.

Here is a link to one of his sets. I think the other set is sold out.

http://roms-peerless-transaxle-supply.ecrater.com/p/7186560/gearset-upgrade-2-for-peerless-820-transaxle-mower

If you follow this link, it will show you some of the things I've done to the transaxles. last post in thread covers some of the weakness I have found and fixed.

http://atltf.forumotion.com/t1074-craftsman-10-38-11-38-12-38-builds
Back to top Go down
Chopperhed
Moderator
Chopperhed
Moderator

500+ Posts
500+ Posts

Age : 57
Join date : 2012-10-14
Points : 4988
Posts : 801
Location : Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Eh!

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 16th 2012, 10:02 pm

BUV wrote:
Thank you for all the replies and help! I did not even realize the outrageous number of the 2000 ft-lb output torque on the transaxle. I messed up the units in my calculation and the actual torque is 279 ft-lb.

So from the engine running at 3600 rpm to the 18in tires at 10 mph (186.7 rpm), the overall reduction would be 18:1.
So to get that, I am thinking of using a CVT with a 2.8:1 reduction and from that using a 820 series transaxle. This is where my problem is. The lowest reduction that Peerless has is about 12:1 and I am looking for it to be about 9:1.

Does anyone know how to change the gear reduction in the transaxle to get a 9:1, or is it also possible to directly drive the input shaft without using the pinion and bevel gear (or any other modifcations that can be done)? Also are there other options for transaxles that could be used. The weight of the vehicle fully loaded is probably going to be around 1900 lbs on the heavy side.

Thanks again for your patience and help.

Do you have space for a jack shaft.

a jackshaft would let you adjust ratios to get what you need.

Also, pulley-sprocket sizes on the trans can be adjusted. You mention a shaft and bevel gear. Is your setup a horizontal shaft engine with a vert shaft transÉ
Back to top Go down
http://http:\\members.shaw.ca\ducksgarage
BUV
New Member

New Member


Join date : 2012-11-14
Points : 4129
Posts : 3

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 20th 2012, 6:46 pm

Chopperhed wrote:
BUV wrote:
Thank you for all the replies and help! I did not even realize the outrageous number of the 2000 ft-lb output torque on the transaxle. I messed up the units in my calculation and the actual torque is 279 ft-lb.

So from the engine running at 3600 rpm to the 18in tires at 10 mph (186.7 rpm), the overall reduction would be 18:1.
So to get that, I am thinking of using a CVT with a 2.8:1 reduction and from that using a 820 series transaxle. This is where my problem is. The lowest reduction that Peerless has is about 12:1 and I am looking for it to be about 9:1.

Does anyone know how to change the gear reduction in the transaxle to get a 9:1, or is it also possible to directly drive the input shaft without using the pinion and bevel gear (or any other modifcations that can be done)? Also are there other options for transaxles that could be used. The weight of the vehicle fully loaded is probably going to be around 1900 lbs on the heavy side.

Thanks again for your patience and help.

Do you have space for a jack shaft.

a jackshaft would let you adjust ratios to get what you need.

Also, pulley-sprocket sizes on the trans can be adjusted. You mention a shaft and bevel gear. Is your setup a horizontal shaft engine with a vert shaft transÉ

I Do Have room for a jackshaft, I could place it in line with the leaf spring eyes. The engine I just got is 11hp and has a horizontal shaft. Would this replace the transaxle? and just go to a live axle then?
Back to top Go down
Chopperhed
Moderator
Chopperhed
Moderator

500+ Posts
500+ Posts

Age : 57
Join date : 2012-10-14
Points : 4988
Posts : 801
Location : Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Eh!

Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitimeNovember 20th 2012, 7:16 pm

BUV wrote:
Chopperhed wrote:
BUV wrote:
Thank you for all the replies and help! I did not even realize the outrageous number of the 2000 ft-lb output torque on the transaxle. I messed up the units in my calculation and the actual torque is 279 ft-lb.

So from the engine running at 3600 rpm to the 18in tires at 10 mph (186.7 rpm), the overall reduction would be 18:1.
So to get that, I am thinking of using a CVT with a 2.8:1 reduction and from that using a 820 series transaxle. This is where my problem is. The lowest reduction that Peerless has is about 12:1 and I am looking for it to be about 9:1.

Does anyone know how to change the gear reduction in the transaxle to get a 9:1, or is it also possible to directly drive the input shaft without using the pinion and bevel gear (or any other modifcations that can be done)? Also are there other options for transaxles that could be used. The weight of the vehicle fully loaded is probably going to be around 1900 lbs on the heavy side.

Thanks again for your patience and help.

Do you have space for a jack shaft.

a jackshaft would let you adjust ratios to get what you need.

Also, pulley-sprocket sizes on the trans can be adjusted. You mention a shaft and bevel gear. Is your setup a horizontal shaft engine with a vert shaft transÉ

I Do Have room for a jackshaft, I could place it in line with the leaf spring eyes. The engine I just got is 11hp and has a horizontal shaft. Would this replace the transaxle? and just go to a live axle then?

Is the transaxle verticle input or horizontal input? You could go to a live axle if you gon't need the differential.

I'm running from my horizontal engine to a jackshaft, then to my rear axle, Since I'm using an ATV axle i had to move the drive sprocket inboard and could not run straignt off the engine. Do you have any pictures of your setup?
Back to top Go down
http://http:\\members.shaw.ca\ducksgarage
Sponsored content





Everything Transaxle-need help Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything Transaxle-need help   Everything Transaxle-need help Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Everything Transaxle-need help
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» What do I need to do to swap a hydro transaxle with a geared transaxle?
» Looking for a transaxle
» Transaxle ?
» 820 transaxle?
» what transaxle

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum :: Technical Forum :: Drivetrain & Brake Tech :: Transaxles and Transmissions-
Jump to: