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 All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"

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GenevaCustoms
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:07 am

Ahh, makes sense problem the easiest way to make it turn. Lol. And I would think it has a decrease on shifting because when you push the clutch sometimes the belt will spin shortly after and if that's a high rpm "after spin" then it could make the trsnny jump into gear and when u have a foot you let off the gas so the rims are lower so the belt "after spin" isn't as high of rpm as if it was set at like 3/4 throttle. I don't know if that's correct info but it sounds right doesn't it? Lol
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Stretch44875
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:37 am

For less stress, no governor is better. Partial throttle on a governor can still be full throttle at the carb, depending on load.

How are you hooking the 820 to the diff?

Considering the high reduction, and over speed 820, keys would see very little torque. I have found 2 keys last longer, and shift easier, than 4.
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Stretch44875
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:09 am

If you look in my build threads, we are running 820 transaxles. We have installed a upgrade gearset that reduces the overall gear ratio. With this gearset, driving 1/1 engine to transaxle, we are running 45mph. This would work great for you, since you have a diff that is reducing your speed even more.

Here is a link for buying it. Stand up guy selling them, will answer any questions you have, and high quality.

http://www.ecrater.com/p/7186560/gearset-upgrade-2-for-peerless-820-transaxle-mower

Dennis

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SuperMudMuppet
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:57 pm

Wow coming along nice
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:30 pm

Gentlemen,
    Over the weekend I ran into a little snag.  Unfortunately my assumed worries of belt slip got the best of me and the slipping Vee belt clutch does not slip when fully loosened.  Stretches and Rainbows belt keepers did help the belt grabbing problem, but now when I apply tension with the idler it "grabs" instantaneously which is not the intent of a manual clutch.  Right now I am using B belts (5/8") thinking of switching to 1/2" and going out to get a smaller (single sheave) drive pulley.  The drive pulley now is 8" and driven is 4", I'm thinking of going to a 4" for a drive pulley with a 1/2" belt.  Here I was worrying about too much belt slip, when the exact opposite occurs Rolling Eyes .  This is how I found out that power transmission was still occurring after I started the engine, thankfully the engine was on idle and stalled before further havoc.



   This is the current clutch setup any and all possible solutions are greatly appreciated.  The main problem is that it doesn't take much to turn the transaxle input pulley and the current center distances from transaxle and engine.  If you need anymore info do not hesitate to ask, this site sure does wonders on finding solutions lol.
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redlinemotorsportts
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:50 pm

So to put in simple terms, the belt you want to clutch, wont disengage when its lose?
Ive had a lot of belt issues and ill tell you this-

5/8" belts dont work with tractor supply pulleys, they have the outcome your having but with 1/2" there fine. so rule belt size out, because you have the right size.

It might be the pulleys you have, im not really familiar with those cast iron (?) ones.

And the keepers might be to close. cant be to close, and cant be to far away.

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TroyBilt Pony
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:03 pm

@redlinemotorsportts wrote:
So to put in simple terms, the belt you want to clutch, wont disengage when its lose?
Ive had a lot of belt issues and ill tell you this-

5/8" belts dont work with tractor supply pulleys, they have the outcome your having but with 1/2" there fine. so rule belt size out, because you have the right size.

It might be the pulleys you have, im not really familiar with those cast iron (?) ones.

And the keepers might be to close. cant be to close, and cant be to far away.
5/8 belts work fine with the pulleys out of the farm and garden section that have no keyway or anything.
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redlinemotorsportts
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:04 pm

@TroyBilt Pony wrote:
@redlinemotorsportts wrote:
So to put in simple terms, the belt you want to clutch, wont disengage when its lose?
Ive had a lot of belt issues and ill tell you this-

5/8" belts dont work with tractor supply pulleys, they have the outcome your having but with 1/2" there fine. so rule belt size out, because you have the right size.

It might be the pulleys you have, im not really familiar with those cast iron (?) ones.

And the keepers might be to close. cant be to close, and cant be to far away.
5/8 belts work fine with the pulleys out of the farm and garden section that have no keyway or anything.
Hmm, TSC must have some good pulleys, gripy.

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willis923
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:21 am

if its not too risky , let it run for a while, just cruise around. maybe everything just needs to get broken in a bit

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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:03 pm

That's a cool build you got there and I like the idea of using tracks.
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:57 pm

Looking real good if you don't mind me askin how much do you got in this thing so far? Just wondering cause I'd love to build one of these
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:12 pm

@k2500life wrote:
Looking real good if you don't mind me askin how much do you got in this thing so far? Just wondering cause I'd love to build one of these
At this point in time, a little less than $500 USD. Bear in mind 2/3 that cost was brand new steel, especially for the tracks. The scrapper near me only has heavy iron, I'm talking like 4x4x1/2" angle iron, too big for me so I had to buy my steel new. If you do go the track route, understand these builds can be expensive both in time and materials. But in my opinion it is SO worth it in the end! Laughing 

Also I think I solved the clutching problem, I went out and got a 1/2" aramid belt and the clutching works great! You live and you learn Rolling Eyes .
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:14 pm

Alright that's not to bad
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:13 pm

Did a quick test drive, as with many ground up builds there are several problem areas.  All of them deal with the drivetrain.  Some problems encountered:
-Overtaxed engine (need to lower pulley ratios)
-Something happened to 1st gear during the test, I have to jiggle it "just right" and hold it for the keys to stay engaged (open up the transaxle to make sure I didn't FUBAR it)
-Engine stalling during skids, even on concrete (probably has to do with the fixed throttle system currently employed, engine needs refurbishing anyways)

Here is a quick non interesting video showing the tribulations encountered.  I really would've thought the 16hp would've had enough spunk to turn this thing on concrete (kept stalling when turning on turf).  But I guess turning track takes TORQUE!  I think I'll get a new pulley for the engine lowering the gear ratio, I didn't know what I was thinking when I wanted this thing to go 25mph especially with garden tractor components lol.
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:22 pm

Its amazing that it acually drives being so custom! Great planning and design!! I dont think i could do that in a million years lol. Yeah, you might need to bump it in HP, if you can find another engine. Good work!

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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:30 pm

That's awesome!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:18 pm

@redlinemotorsportts wrote:
Its amazing that it acually drives being so custom! Great planning and design!! I dont think i could do that in a million years lol. Yeah, you might need to bump it in HP, if you can find another engine. Good work!
As a mechanical engineering student I appreciate that comment!

Here is another video showing the lack of power when turning (or maybe the governor isn't responding quick enough?). Also notice when I accidently shoved it 2nd gear at the end lol Shocked .
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:57 pm

@frostypaws wrote:
@redlinemotorsportts wrote:
Its amazing that it acually drives being so custom! Great planning and design!! I dont think i could do that in a million years lol. Yeah, you might need to bump it in HP, if you can find another engine. Good work!
As a mechanical engineering student I appreciate that comment!

Here is another video showing the lack of power when turning (or maybe the governor isn't responding quick enough?).  Also notice when I accidently shoved it 2nd gear at the end lol Shocked .
Sounds like it almost isnt tuned right, Yours looks old enough to have a adjustable main jet. id probally play with that.

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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:23 pm

I'm not all that surprised that you're short for engine. You've got a lot of weight, rotational mass, rolling resistance, friction. Steering adds further drag and scrub.

That said, you've done an OUTSTANDING job on this thing! Grab yourself a larger engine, and finish it, knowing you've done a hell of a job creating what can be nothing short of the most unstoppable machine here, hands down. (Okay- it's an apples and oranges thing, but you've done very well). Be proud!

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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:26 pm

I think you may be running on one cylinder. They will run and sound ok with one. Both exhaust pipes getting hot?

How are you driving off the 820? Just one side? Is it locked?


Another problem is if you brake one side of the diff, the other side will spin twice as fast, putting a large load on the engine.
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:24 pm

cool machine. i am new here and signed up because i seen your "muskrat". i am in the process of building a very similar machine myself. i call mine "The Beast" . if you would like to see my build progress, please have a look here http://kramerville.net/mbn/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=12494&page=1
am running a 4 cyl 1.4 liter nissan, and i find it doesnt have enough power on start up or tight steering unless i am at full throttle. my build thread will discuss many of my problems, current and past.
enjoy the read, i will certainly be following your build as well.
good job.
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:16 pm

Im with stretch on this one, sounds like the motor is dropping a cylinder under load, I would check the plugs, the twins I had were bad about fouling plugs. I didnt realize why till I was older, its the carbs typically have problems with the needle not seating well once they sit or get old. then the fuel pump pumps the engine full of gas and the plugs foul. but they will keep running (somewhat) just because briggs are stubborn lol making it harder to figure out the problem.
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:11 am

Stretch and Creepy, you guys might be right!  It didn't phase me until now, but a couple years back it was only running on one cylinder because of a tear in the plug wiring.  Next weekend, I'll make sure the plugs are firing.

Jeap, you have quite a big mochine there.  I like how it too is based on a Bombardier.  An automotive engine sure would be nice to have, but I'll make do with the 16hp.  I hope I don't run into track throwing problems like you experienced.
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:05 am

...and that's what I get for not actually WATCHING the video. Crappy internet...

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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:20 pm

Little update... so after further off-roading tests, a complete drivetrain change is in order for next year. When offroading the transmission is unreliable, popping out of gear every so often and the engine isn't capable of spinning track out in 1st gear. With that in mind I found a 1.6 Liter 5 speed manual Geo Tracker (Suzuki) I'm thinking as a drivetrain donor. I won't be able to get it until I save up enough $$$, so I probably wont mess with it until spring. Until then stay safe guys!
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PostSubject: Re: All-Terrain Tractor "Muskrat"   Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:31 pm

Looks great, bet that big ass diifernetial is stealing about 10-15 hp alone, the rest is for speed. also consider a big heavy flywheel with good momentum for builds like this.

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