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 LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE

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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 1st 2014, 12:18 pm

You gotta remember a basic thing here- a battery does not "deliver" current- it makes it available. An electrical device will draw what it needs. I could hook up 12 of these batteries in parallel- for a total of 12 THOUSAND avaliable crank amps- and NOT burn up the starter.
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 1st 2014, 12:23 pm

Ohhhh ok well I learned something today :p though it would be interesting to have 12k amps sitting around 20000# winch anyone?
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 1st 2014, 2:46 pm

Moose wrote:
Ohhhh ok well I learned something today :p though it would be interesting to have 12k amps sitting around 20000# winch anyone?

Ut oh! Now I see a build in the future for Moose, or Doc...

WINCH TRAILER!!!! A utility trailer with 12 batteries in it. Some way to anchor it wherever it is. And a 20 thousand pound winch!

Maybe anchor points on the trailer for a strap to go around a tree. And/or just some really big poles that can be driven into the ground. And a jack, to get them back out of the ground. (Or set up some kind of high pulley system, so you can use the winch to pull the poles back out of the ground.)
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 1st 2014, 3:18 pm

Doc, a better battery for applications where a winch will also be used is the yellow top Optima battery.

A regular "car" battery will also eventually give up the ghost. A lot sooner than a deep cycle would. And especially the yellow top. Which was made to be used where you'll be starting an engine with it, running lights, etc... But also going to be using it for heavy winching...
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Craftsman1998
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 1st 2014, 6:21 pm

I dont know much about batteries but instead of using a 6 volt battery or a 12 volt which would fry your wiring why not use a 8 volt marine battery what would happen if you did that?
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 1st 2014, 6:27 pm

Angchor wrote:
Doc, a better battery for applications where a winch will also be used is the yellow top Optima battery.

A regular "car" battery will also eventually give up the ghost. A lot sooner than a deep cycle would. And especially the yellow top. Which was made to be used where you'll be starting an engine with it, running lights, etc... But also going to be using it for heavy winching...

Oh... I'm well aware of that- but thanks! I used an automotive starting battery here, for no reason other than "I had one". I dropped a mint to buy the Optima I have in MULEII, and just am not in a position to do it again any time soon. (Actually, I got a blue top marine/deep cycle RV model Optima)

Craftsman1998 wrote:
I dont know much about batteries but instead of using a 6 volt battery or a 12 volt which would fry your wiring why not use a 8 volt marine battery what would happen if you did that?

8 volt???

All the batteries we are talking about here, are 12v. Our cars are all 12v, and so are our tractors.


Last edited by Doc Sprocket on September 1st 2014, 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 1st 2014, 6:30 pm

oh lol i thought tractors were 6 volt so i could run a 12 volt car battery in my tractor didn't know that. And i've never had to buy a tractor battery because my batteries tend to last awhile so never even looked at a tractor battery to see if it was 6 or 12 volt
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 1st 2014, 6:50 pm

Any day you learn something, is a good day!
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 8th 2014, 7:15 am

Couple updates... I've done an engine swap, and I'm completely rewiring the machine. New exhaust coming, and changing fuel tanks, too. I'll add pics when I can, but in the meantime, some video:





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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 8th 2014, 2:14 pm

Angchor wrote:
Doc, a better battery for applications where a winch will also be used is the yellow top Optima battery.

A regular "car" battery will also eventually give up the ghost. A lot sooner than a deep cycle would. And especially the yellow top. Which was made to be used where you'll be starting an engine with it, running lights, etc... But also going to be using it for heavy winching...

my father has an 05' Dodge Powerwagon. came stock with a Warn 12,000 winch, and we added a Western snowplow. Up until last winter, it had the STOCK battery.

tell me more how winches and other toys destroy regular batterys
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Angchor
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 8th 2014, 3:51 pm

willis923 wrote:
Angchor wrote:
Doc, a better battery for applications where a winch will also be used is the yellow top Optima battery.

A regular "car" battery will also eventually give up the ghost. A lot sooner than a deep cycle would. And especially the yellow top. Which was made to be used where you'll be starting an engine with it, running lights, etc... But also going to be using it for heavy winching...

my father has an 05' Dodge Powerwagon. came stock with a Warn 12,000 winch, and we added a Western snowplow. Up until last winter, it had the STOCK battery.

tell me more how winches and other toys destroy regular batterys

I'm trying to understand why this is even an issue? This is not something that I made up. The differences between deep cycle batteries and car batteries is a fact. if there were no difference, there would be no reason to manufacture them differently.

I am going to skip the Optima website for this purpose, because it might be seen as 'biased'. But I'll give you some links that talk about the differences.

Here, Warn company explains why they recommend the yellow top, over other batteries, for their winches and other toys...
http://www.warn.com/blog/2012/05/10/the_different_optima_batteries_explained.shtml

Here is a link where the differences in batteries is explained pretty good. Note that the guy has come back and stopped recommending Optima batteries since they moved their operations to mexico and the quality has suffered. But that the differences in batteries... and that it is better to use the right battery for the job... remains a fact. (He just recommends different brands, now.)
http://www.stu-offroad.com/electrical/elec1/battery.htm

Here is a recommendation based on experience, for the excide version of the optima batteries.
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/exide_orbital/

And they also explain that it wasn't even a deep cycle.

But the type of battery still made a difference, there. They were making the point that the battery was better than your run of the mill 40 dollar car battery.

The point? That there are different kinds of batteries. Some will last longer than others, in certain applications. It's as simple a fact, as that sintered bronze will last longer as a bushing on a spindle, than plastic will.

By the way, if the truck came stock with a winch. I would assume they also sent it out with a better battery than you would find in say, a chevette.
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 8th 2014, 5:21 pm

Angchor wrote:
By the way, if the truck came stock with a winch. I would assume they also sent it out with a better battery than you would find in say, a chevette.

same battery as all other 3/4 ton dodge pickups... not trying to argue, just sayin
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 8th 2014, 7:02 pm

willis923 wrote:
Angchor wrote:
By the way, if the truck came stock with a winch. I would assume they also sent it out with a better battery than you would find in say, a chevette.

same battery as all other 3/4 ton dodge pickups... not trying to argue, just sayin

Good point, too!

Batteries do seem to be a crapshoot sometimes.
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 8th 2014, 7:54 pm

To my understanding a plain jane marine style battery is better than most car battery's for this application.

Thicker plates for longer, strong discharges.
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 8th 2014, 10:33 pm

hold up, i just want to know one thing, where in the sam blue hell, do you get a $40 car battery??!!?? lol cause everytime ive had to buy one they have been between 75 and 120
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 9th 2014, 6:44 am

Hmmmm.....

...Nobody's mentioned the charging system! Anybody wanna take a stab at how powerful the alternator on that there Power Wagon is?

-Because if it's got a big, badass alternator, that battery isn't necessarily discharging that much while winching. I'll betcha the owner's manual tells you yo keep 'er running while winching!

Then again- knowing warranties, it probably tells you not to go off road. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 9th 2014, 10:44 am

richie thomas wrote:
hold up, i just want to know one thing, where in the sam blue hell, do you get a $40 car battery??!!?? lol cause everytime ive had to buy one they have been between 75 and 120

good question. lawnmower batterys cost that much.
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 12th 2014, 10:54 am

If you wanna know.batteries, check out "Fourwheeler" magazines battery issues. Winches are one reason a lot of offroad rigs run two batteries. I have a diesel F250. It requires two just for starting. Deep-cycle batteries are meamt to withstand multiple complete discharges. Thus, being used im marine applications. Most smaller boats don't have charging capability. So, you have batteries that can be fully discharged with no ill effects. A 1000cca batteryis what I run in auto uses. If it will fit. My old ford 8n works fine with a 540cca battery, as long as my alternator holds. If you wanna run lights, winches, etc, think seriously about dual battery setups. Easy to do. And a "starting" battery, with a deep-cycle backup can be done to accomodate goodies.
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 12th 2014, 12:51 pm

I got my twin cylinder swap done...you done yet?
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSeptember 12th 2014, 7:32 pm

Stretch44875 wrote:
I got my twin cylinder swap done...you done yet?

Yup. Runs and drives, but loud as hell. Just have to finish the exhaust, was unable to touch it the last couple days.
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMarch 4th 2015, 10:21 pm

So I know it's been asked... But I've never seen it answered... Doc... What pulley sizes are you running in this thing?
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMarch 5th 2015, 6:13 am

I am close to 1:1. Front is 5 1/2", rear is 6". Due to the design of this thing, 5 1/2" is the very biggest pulley I could fit on the front. Its so tight, I have to remove the engine pulley to change belts.
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMarch 5th 2015, 8:06 am

Doc Sprocket wrote:
I am close to 1:1. Front is 5 1/2", rear is 6".
ok thanks doc! I was just wondering cause I have those same rear tires and was curious what you are running...
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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMay 5th 2015, 3:15 pm

I need to keep reminding myself to update this...

In a fit of madness today, (Or was it boredom? I often confuse the two) I looked at those wee little X-tracs up front, and thunk. You know- part of the reason I scabbed on the 4-on-4 trailer hubs was so that I could use whatever rims I wanted to, and open up the door to a range of tires and sizes.

My mind flashed to the 22x11-8 Kenda Scorpion knobbies I used to have on the rear of this thing before I changed over to the Carlisle Strykers. I had mounted the Scorpions on some 8" rims with a 3/4" keyed bore for use on a tractor for my son to putter around on. When I got rid of the tractor, I threw on some crappy turfs for the sale and kept the Scorpions. F you, for $50, you're not getting a mint pair of Scorpions... LOL

I then realized I had an extra set of 4 bolt, 8x7 trailer rims left over from... from... Damn, I've had too much crap. Dunno, but I had them. So- a little tire levering here and there, and I had the Scorps mounted on the trailer rims.

Bolt them on and go, right? Wrong. Clearances were so tight that my turning radius was about equal to an oceangoing freighter, and in fact, I had my steering arm rubbing on a sidewall. In an act of desperation, I dug up some 4" wheel spacers I got off my neighbour a few years back, left over from one of his projects and bolted them in place.

Well- I can steer a bit now and nothing is rubbing. But with all that offset, I know the J part of my spindles are going to start bending pretty quickly. I think there's some more frontend work in MULE's future.

Also- my front track is now maybe 6" or so wider than the rear, and her nose sits up a wee bit. More work...

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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMay 5th 2015, 3:16 pm

I need to keep reminding myself to update this...

In a fit of madness today, (Or was it boredom? I often confuse the two) I looked at those wee little X-tracs up front, and thunk. You know- part of the reason I scabbed on the 4-on-4 trailer hubs was so that I could use whatever rims I wanted to, and open up the door to a range of tires and sizes.

My mind flashed to the 22x11-8 Kenda Scorpion knobbies I used to have on the rear of this thing before I changed over to the Carlisle Strykers. I had mounted the Scorpions on some 8" rims with a 3/4" keyed bore for use on a tractor for my son to putter around on. When I got rid of the tractor, I threw on some crappy turfs for the sale and kept the Scorpions. F you, for $50, you're not getting a mint pair of Scorpions... LOL

I then realized I had an extra set of 4 bolt, 8x7 trailer rims left over from... from... Damn, I've had too much crap. Dunno, but I had them. So- a little tire levering here and there, and I had the Scorps mounted on the trailer rims.

Bolt them on and go, right? Wrong. Clearances were so tight that my turning radius was about equal to an oceangoing freighter, and in fact, I had my steering arm rubbing on a sidewall. In an act of desperation, I dug up some 4" wheel spacers I got off my neighbour a few years back, left over from one of his projects and bolted them in place.

Well- I can steer a bit now and nothing is rubbing. But with all that offset, I know the J part of my spindles are going to start bending pretty quickly. I think there's some more frontend work in MULE's future.

Also- my front track is now maybe 6" or so wider than the rear, and her nose sits up a wee bit. More work...

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PostSubject: Re: LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE   LawnBoy UTLTV aka MULE - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMay 5th 2015, 4:16 pm

It sure does look good with them up front. How's that sweet exhaust setup been since you've been running it awhile now?
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