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 Direct Steering Tech

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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 1:11 pm

I hear and see a lot of talk about direct steering I here, and I see a lot of setups that a WRONG. No disrespect intended, we all do our best, and being uninformed sometimes makes it hard to get it right.

I'm gonna show you how to set up a direct steering assy that will give you the proper tire angles to allow you better grip and steering with a locked rear end.

Frankly, a lot of the complaints about locked rears trying to make the mower go straight instead of turn are because the steering is relying on ONLY the inner tire to turn


Lemme 'splain

Direct Steering Tech Splain1_zps6e500723

Direct Steering Tech Splain2_zps3495df2e

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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 1:30 pm

Some good stuff there, Lawren! And yet... Not ONCE did you mention Wilhelm Ackermann, the fine mathematician responsible for figuring all this out for us! LOL

Anyways- for those interested in further research, look up the Ackermann Principle. It's all about the fact that the inside front tire of a car going around a corner has to follow a tighter radius than the outside tire. And yes- it helps plenty.

There are several factors that affect how well your ride does or does not steer, and Ackermann is but one of them. Other factors like KPI (King Pin Inclination) camber, caster,toe, and scrub radius all play a big part.

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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 1:37 pm

Interesting. How would you do the tie rods though? Most direct steering in racing setups have vertical steering and a rod going from the shaft to a spindle. With that kind of distance, wouldnt it be be difficult to do it this way?

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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 2:04 pm

Nope, you would mount the triangle flat on the frame, with a vertical rod up a 90 degree box to the horizontal steering shaft

Need me to draw it?

What matters is the triangle pushing the rods... don't matter how it's oriented

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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 2:30 pm

I'd just like to point out here that the triangle can be COMPLETELY eliminated. A dead straight tie rod going from steering arm to steering arm will work just fine, IF the steering arms are on the correct angle.

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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 2:40 pm

Correct Doc, if you are building the spindle, and figure your angles correctly. This is a simple set up for converting the stock spindles. It doesn't matter WHERE the triangulation occurs (in your setup the triangulation action is moved to each wheel instead of being centralized)

I suggested this method as an easy way to set up and ADJUST a direct steering setup on a stock mower. By adjusting the length of the bar tying the two sides together, you can adjust the angle of the wheels till it's just right

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 3:00 pm

Yup! That sounds about right!

I'd also like to point out to the masses another thing that might be overlooked. The practical application of direct steering. Two major points here-

1)Sensitive. You're looking at an average steering wheel rotation of 90°, lock to lock. Not 90° each way, TOTAL.

2)Stiff. At low speeds, that sucker's going to be a beotch to steer. You'd better have some serious biceps. Direct steer is best suited for higher speed applications, not manuevering in tight spots. Basically, I'd only suggest this for a racer or higher speed "rally" machine.

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 3:05 pm

Even so, direct steering is a bit too twitchy for me. Get a little overzealous and you're right in the cabbage.

Also, direct steering gives way more feedback, so you feel EVERYTHING. This makes offroading a lot more tiring.

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 3:06 pm

think I might just stick to articulating tractors after I get the massey done lol
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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 3:13 pm

Direct Steering Tech Splain3_zps29684862

Direct Steering Tech Splain4_zps0b50874b

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 3:14 pm

@Moose wrote:
think I might just stick to articulating tractors after I get the massey done lol

Also true on both counts. I've had a few "vehicles" with direct steer, and can attest to this stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 3:17 pm

@Doc Sprocket wrote:
@Moose wrote:
think I might just stick to articulating tractors after I get the massey done lol

Also true on both counts. I've had a few "vehicles" with direct steer, and can attest to this stuff.
then all I need is 2 sprockets a big one and a little one lol
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 4:05 pm

*Moved to the correct section,

and here, there are many ways to do Direct steering. - https://www.atltf.com/t1959-101-on-steering-caster-camber-toe-and-kip-and-what-it-does-old-video


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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 4:33 pm

showoff.... (grin)

Direct Steering Tech 1222323911

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 4:40 pm

@Lawren Wimberly wrote:
showoff.... (grin)

Direct Steering Tech 1222323911



Direct Steering Tech Old-man-with-cane1

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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 4:52 pm

I rest my case... Direct Steering Tech 1222323911

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 4:54 pm

@Lawren Wimberly wrote:
I rest my cane... Direct Steering Tech 1222323911
there fixed it for yah
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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 4:57 pm

he's just jealous of my hair

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 5:40 pm

IIRC at the ARMA clinic one of the ways they mentioned to set the spindle arms was to tie string from the spindle to the center of the transaxle in a V.

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 5:58 pm

Doug Fackler wrote:
IIRC at the ARMA clinic one of the ways they mentioned to set the spindle arms was to tie string from the spindle to the center of the transaxle in a V.

That's the basics of it. Run a string from the center of the kingpin to the center of the rear axle. As long as the rod end bolt hole (in the steering arm) falls on this line, you're good.

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 6:19 pm

That is what current wisdom recommends. Keep in mind they are racing at high speeds. at low speeds the tractor tends to pivot on the inside wheel, rather than the center of the axle, which is why I tie my "string" from the rear hub to the opposite front hub. It works better for me at low speeds (below 20 mph)

doing this my way tends to make the outside tire toe in just a bit on a turn, increasing the "Bite" of that wheel but not enough to make it lose traction.

at higher speeds (like 20 +) the steering tends to be TOO responsive, so care must be taken not to jerk the wheel.


Just my observations. I've been playing with the troybuilt.

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 8:03 pm

good explanation, but im having a hard time understanding, im a "gotta see and mess with it" learner. This just messes with my head lol, but the pics helped some.
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 8:13 pm

I think for us offroaders it doesnt matter as much I think it is more for racers
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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 8:38 pm

No- having proper steering geometry can be of great benefit regardless of your machine's intended use. Been there, done that. Once the diff's locked, the symptoms of bad geometry are amplified.

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PostSubject: Re: Direct Steering Tech   Direct Steering Tech Icon_minitimeSat Feb 15, 2014 8:55 pm

kinda like when the axle on my truck locks up in the middle of a turn -.-
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