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 Project Long Travel

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willis923
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Jedi
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PostSubject: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 1:28 pm

Project Long Travel 1518021_650436005017962_1083653794_n
This is what I started with, a mostly stock 2004 Troy-Bilt Pony

An explanation of project Long Travel-

The Goal:
The goal is to take my 2004 Troy-Bilt Pony (I bought new) and add double A-arm independent suspension to all 4 corners and to drastically increase it’s top speed, and off-road capabilities and to improve it’s overall performance, usefulness and fun factor.

The Details:
*The engine is a 17.5 hp Intec single, this will likely remain the same.

*Power transfer- The mower’s current Vari-drive system will be scraped. The plan is to use a Comet 40/44 Series Torque Converter System (or equivalent) from the motor to a jack-shaft where the driven clutch will mount. From the jack-shaft a chain will lead to the input shaft of a Peerless 700 5-speed. From the output shaft of the 5-speed a chain will lead to a 1 inch live axle.

*Front suspension- I just finished grafting the front suspension from an old China made 4 wheeler I have onto the mower.

*Rear suspension & axle- This will be somewhat typical of this style double A-arm. A non-adjustable, bearing mounted center carrier (drive chain adjusted via a chain tensioner.) the center carrier (made of 1” shaft material) will carry the drive sprocket and disc brake rotor and will be book ended by 1” universal joints. Then, suspended by the A-arms (which I will make) will be more 1” shaft leading to another U-joint and a hub carrier and hub. Coil-overs again for the shocks. This is fairly standard stuff for off-road buggies and should work well for an off-road mower.

*Brakes & steering- Special attention will be paid to these 2. The brake will be rear hydraulic disc… a juice brake… the front are mechanical drum. The steering will be reworked for strength and reliability. You absolutely never want your steering or brakes to fail at speed, no one wants to be an unwitting passenger of a greased pig tied to a lightning bolt…

I will post updates as progress is made...... but this will take some time


They say that in any great endeavor half the struggle is just showing up… so here I am.


Last edited by Jedi on Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 1:45 pm

Big build ahead, I wanna wish ya luck and I'll be watching this build closely. Big task means great opportunities for learning!

Project Long Travel 1222323911

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I can do anything I set my mind to... the impossible just takes me a little longer   Project Long Travel 1222323911

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Moose
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 1:58 pm

gonna be watching this!
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Jedi
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 2:04 pm

Here is what I have done so far-

Project Long Travel 1798385_650436378351258_982903190_n
Welded up this sub frame out of 1x2x1/8 tube

Project Long Travel 1921899_653171894744373_64885191_n
I whittled these front suspension mounts out of plate steel.

Project Long Travel 1798414_711602585528431_1215101423_n
Project Long Travel 1622851_654099254651637_2090099687_n
Stripped the front/rear ends off and got the sub frame in position. The sub frame will be bolted into position and the suspensions will be mounted to it.

Project Long Travel 1958307_654096451318584_2065877413_n
Project Long Travel 1013323_654098721318357_282083974_n
Project Long Travel 1798236_654014601326769_390814465_n
Project Long Travel 1900027_654624731265756_254232366_n
Got the front suspension sorted and tacked into place.


Last edited by Jedi on Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 2:11 pm

nice wide stance to handle the lift well

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I can do anything I set my mind to... the impossible just takes me a little longer   Project Long Travel 1222323911

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Jedi
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 2:13 pm

Thanks guys! I guess the steering is next. My thinking right now is to use this steering rack I made a couple years ago for another project but I never used. Works like a rack & pinion. I really have no choice but to use a rack to eliminate 'bump steer'.
Project Long Travel 1620491_654624844599078_1878171467_n
Project Long Travel 1898274_654624974599065_136852016_n
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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 2:17 pm

some great design and machining skills goin on there! ingenious use of the roller chain and sprockets... I'm assuming a third sprocket gets connected to the steering wheel?

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I can do anything I set my mind to... the impossible just takes me a little longer   Project Long Travel 1222323911

Tech Manual mod, If ya need it, and cant find it... Just ask.... Pm if I'm not on line
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redlinemotorsportts
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 2:20 pm

Holy moley dude! all that fab work looking great  cheers  Nice work so far!!

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Jedi
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 2:49 pm

Thanks Lawren, Redline.... yes a third sprocket is used. Originally The third sprocket was on the steering column but on this I'm thinking it will be mounted on its own bearing supported shaft which will in turn be linked to the steering column by a rod.
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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 5:04 pm

Looks pretty dang good so far. Please tell me you're going to engineer some droop into the front end. All too often, I see people setting these up so that ride height is at full rise. Just wrong, it is.

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Project Long Travel Facebo12
Put down the wrench, and come out with your hands up!-Doc "Tranny Crusher" Sprocket, ATLTF Forum Admin, Thinkerer and Tinkerer, and all-around good dood. Wink

Gen. Mayhem- https://www.atltf.com/t2597-general-mayhem-race-tractor
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83ratrodmurray
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 5:42 pm

very interesting build that thing should be unstoppable when it's done.
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willis923
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 7:10 pm

looks pretty badass. i'll be watching this one  Suspect 

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Jedi
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 7:25 pm

Doc, yes there will be droop, I have to do some figuring on the rear suspension. I have to determine everything based from the full droop of the rear suspension. The universals (pictured) have a max operating angle, I need to stay a few degrees away from that at full droop. I would guess maybe 30% of suspension travel will be droop but I've never done this before on a mower so nothings carved in stone.
Project Long Travel 1898145_655459944515568_2083972381_n
the u-joints on the left will be used on the rear axle. (sorry about blurry pic)

Lots else to figure, I have to check ackermann, it may be close enough to leave alone. The shocks are also a complicated item that can make or break the ride, and  they're pricey. Air shocks are the best as far as adjustability but expensive. So expensive that I started modifying truck air shocks for off road buggy duty with good results.
Project Long Travel 1897676_655460051182224_1942269994_n
This is a air shock for a ford ranger. I fab expansion chambers to increase volume, you can change the volume with filler plates mounted on a threaded rod inside the chamber. You can also control compression and rebound with inline metering valves. If I could find very small car air shocks I might could use them on this project......maybe....
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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 8:17 pm

That sounds pretty good to me. 30-50% seems reasonable, I'd call 30% a minimum. I'm no suspension engineer, but have lots of notes. Just be sure to set spring preload with weight on it to simulate the engine, driver, etc.

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***Get YOUR official "Doc Locked, And Ready To Rock!" Stickers by clicking here!***
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Project Long Travel Facebo12
Put down the wrench, and come out with your hands up!-Doc "Tranny Crusher" Sprocket, ATLTF Forum Admin, Thinkerer and Tinkerer, and all-around good dood. Wink

Gen. Mayhem- https://www.atltf.com/t2597-general-mayhem-race-tractor
MULE- https://www.atltf.com/t2153-lawn-boy-utltv
MULEII- https://www.atltf.com/t3328-1970-john-deere-112-the-beginnings-of-mule-ii
MULEIII https://www.atltf.com/t4263-mule3-brainstorming-ideas-etc#58287
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Jedi
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 8:25 pm

Ya, on motorcycle powered buggies I shot for 40-45% droop which was a recommendation for actual 'dune' buggies that can see a lot of air time.
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Doc Sprocket
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 9:05 pm

Makes sense. Do you have the operating angle specs for your U-joints?

_______________________________________________
***Get YOUR official "Doc Locked, And Ready To Rock!" Stickers by clicking here!***
***Official Sprocket's Garage vinyl graphics and tees for sale HERE!***
Project Long Travel Facebo12
Put down the wrench, and come out with your hands up!-Doc "Tranny Crusher" Sprocket, ATLTF Forum Admin, Thinkerer and Tinkerer, and all-around good dood. Wink

Gen. Mayhem- https://www.atltf.com/t2597-general-mayhem-race-tractor
MULE- https://www.atltf.com/t2153-lawn-boy-utltv
MULEII- https://www.atltf.com/t3328-1970-john-deere-112-the-beginnings-of-mule-ii
MULEIII https://www.atltf.com/t4263-mule3-brainstorming-ideas-etc#58287
Wrench, Wheel, Wreck, Repeat...
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Jedi
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 9:24 pm

Had to check again on McMaster/Carr, 45 degrees.
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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 9:32 pm

@Doc Sprocket wrote:
Looks pretty dang good so far. Please tell me you're going to engineer some droop into the front end. All too often, I see people setting these up so that ride height is at full rise. Just wrong, it is.

For those out there watching this thread with interest that may not get Doc's point....

If you set up a sprung suspension so that the ride height is all the way at the top, every time you hit a bump, the springs hammer the suspension back to the top, after the bump passes. Aside from making for an uncomfortable ride, it's hard on the parts, and may as well not be sprung at all

_______________________________________________
I can do anything I set my mind to... the impossible just takes me a little longer   Project Long Travel 1222323911

Tech Manual mod, If ya need it, and cant find it... Just ask.... Pm if I'm not on line
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Jedi
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 9:46 pm

Right, most important if your suspension is at full droop (or near it) when loaded and stationary your wheels will spend a lot more time in the air and not on the trail where you need them. Just taking a sharp turn at speed will lift a front wheel off the ground.
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TroyBilt Pony
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 10:21 pm

Looks really cool! My pony I had was a beast man.
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motorizedeverything
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 10:40 pm

WOW i am definitely going to follow this one

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Jedi
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2014 10:42 pm

TroyBilt, ya they are real brutes. I put those big tires on the back first to pull ground engaging equipment and I can't believe the things it's done and never broke!
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeThu Feb 27, 2014 10:12 pm

Ok, I believe I've decided on the steering setup. 1st I'm leaning towards using handlebars instead of a steering wheel. Lots of hand wringing over this. I like the idea of using an ATV thumb control for the throttle and operating the front brakes from the stock lever simplifies things as well. Based on this decision I came up with this as the general strategy.

Project Long Travel 534082_655996171128612_1102422801_n

Not sure this makes sense to anyone but me. Basically a bracket welded to the steering shaft, a link from that to a bracket mounted to a bearing supported shaft. The shaft will go down thru the frame where another bracket will be mounted. A link from that leads to the rack. Links will have heim joints. I think I have everything I need to do this so I might get to it this weekend.

If you see any issues with this please let me know.

Oh, and yes I got rid of the roller chain on the rack and will modify it for a link mount.
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeSat Mar 01, 2014 11:35 pm

Had a little time tonight so I fired up the shop's heater and went to work. I think I have the steering rack in position. Will know tomorrow when I will try and complete the new steering.Project Long Travel 1962702_657051797689716_1442540007_n
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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitimeSat Mar 01, 2014 11:40 pm

I'm thinking it might be hard to turn. Guess we'll see. Been lookin forward to some more progress on this!

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I can do anything I set my mind to... the impossible just takes me a little longer   Project Long Travel 1222323911

Tech Manual mod, If ya need it, and cant find it... Just ask.... Pm if I'm not on line
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Project Long Travel Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project Long Travel   Project Long Travel Icon_minitime

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