Build-Off 2021?

I think my vote depends on what the costs are. I mean, prizes is about all I can think of that could be considered a cost. Is there anything I'm missing?

honestly it's a hard choice to make, with the financial side of things being what they are for a lot of people, in my honest opinion, no, i don't think there should be a buildoff in 21, as much as i hate to say it, i think they should be postponed until things have stabilized and everything is mostly back to normal for everyone

If there's really no costs to the forum, I don't see why not. I'm not saying we'll get a great turnout next year but at least everybody has the opportunity.

Personally, I love the build-off and was thinking about entering again next year, but...

Why bother if only one or two actually finish? The B/O in the past has been a good source for community for the forum. Heck with the covid stuff this year and people not being able to do much, I figured the forum would pick up in posts. Actually quite the opposite happened. Even some Diehard members that have been regular for the past four or so years even vanished. Then, I seen the uptick of "group rides" this year in the Facebook Groups, I again hoped for some people to come in here and talk about it.

Nadda.

Bad thing, I know more than just 1 person has a finishing tractor this year, but they vanished mid year.

If we have one or two finishers, we will reward them. @redzz02 has made a money donation for me to purchase some prizes. I will probably take him up for about 40% or 50% of that and send the rest back. I have a couple prizes on the side that I have too.

2021 what does that bring? I can't tell because I cannot see the future. If things go currently the way they are... I don't know... I'm not going down with another sinking forum.

yeah there was some awesome builds started this year, but they didn't get finished, i feel this is very much due to financial and other issues caused by C19, i did notice as things grew worse the builds entered seemed to vanish, @Murraymountain you have to remember my friend, it's not about just the forums finances, it's about the builders as well, and most of them simply had more to deal with this year and trying to build a tractor wasn't something high on their list of things they needed to do, will next year be better, as mighty said ''i don't know i can't see the future'', i hope the atltf isn't a sinking ship, i hope when things get back to a more normal state people will come back, but if it is then that's just how things go sometimes,

off topic maybe...I guess this just hasn't been the greatest year for me and c19 was only a fraction for it. Too much other stuff to have dealt with.

RCG here: Its the economy. Its why i switched entirely to junk yard builds. No one has money for parts and new stuff.
The internet stuff and forum drop offs I would bet is the same thing I have noticed that people have no at home internet right now. Maine for example my internet is $80 a month for mid grade. $80 goes a long way toward putting food on the table. I know cause there have been a few times my family and I ate hot dogs and beans for weeks to keep me online for youtube.

At this point if it is not cheap or free people can not afford to do it or care.

My 2 cents: Get back to the place this all started at. Cheap fun that any one can do. Every sport has pro's but at some point it has to be reminded the pro's are nothing with out the people who follow them.

True... and the bad thing about those without internet is those that need it for school these days for "online" classes because there isn't brick and mortar open in some cases. I continue to divert the topic.

@darkside0914 I'm not saying people aren't gonna have a lot to deal with and that a tractor build is something that they can all afford to do. I'm just saying that if anyone wants to enter, they at least have the opportunity. No one has to enter just because it's there.

I'm kinda un-decided. I suppose MurrayMountain has a point tho, people don't have to enter it. Although it's some extra work for atltf staff to keep an eye on it.

On the off topic side of things kinda, I personally got a bit frustrated with my last build and then ran out of time to get it sorted out before the top tractor challenge. After that, I had other things going on and didn't get back to it. I still have a lot of different build ideas I'd like to try with tractors in general, but they take so much time and there's also other things I'm involved in, building cars ect. So I don't always feel like dedicating months to a tractor build, especially now that I've done a few of them over the years. I think forum attendance comes and goes a bit and that's sorta the natural way of things. It would be nice if some of the people that hang out on facebook post on here, but I guess that's a quicker/easier platform for them or whatever. Personally I kinda like the forum more than posting that kinda thing on facebook but whatever your into I guess.

mr.modified wrote:

It would be nice if some of the people that hang out on facebook post on here, but I guess that's a quicker/easier platform for them or whatever. Personally I kinda like the forum more than posting that kinda thing on facebook but whatever your into I guess.

FB groups are fun, but projects get lost over there. Expecially when they get lots of posts. There are a couple builds on FB I really like and give me inspiration sometimes, but man when I have to spend part of a day just to find who did it and find the project. It gets frustrating. I've linked to them with a bookmark, but FB has broken those bookmarks a couple times changing the URL mechanics.

I think @Doug and I have come to a decision for next year. I don't think we need the poll to run 25 days, so I may cut some time off it. It was more of a see how may people pop in and take the time. I don't expect more than 10 people to vote for the B/O should one more finish in the next 8 days.

@Doug and I are still throwing around some Ideas for next year.

Yeah I agree about stuff on facebook getting lost in the mix/shuffled down the list. It's more of a discuss about something right now and then gone kinda thing. That's why I like the forum for projects and stuff. It's cool to read through build threads when they're detailed and with a lot of pics I think. Something you don't really get on Facebook.

I know I havent been around a whole lot this year, and its been the same for a lot of others it seems. C19 seems to have everything thrown out of whack, as I know a lot of us behind the scenes were hoping for killer 2020 turnouts with a lot of different things related to our hobby.

In my opinion, it might be wise to take a hiatus year from the B/O. Let people recuperate a bit. I do kind of have an idea for something else to do next year, nothing as extravagant or "official" as the Build Off has been in previous years, but something to help drum up interest and reward those who do actually stick around.

Monetarily, it doesnt really "cost anything" to operate the Build Off. Prizes, yeah sure, those are almost entirely funded out of pocket by those who sponsor it. The forum is entirely non-profit and I actually pay money to keep this forum ad-free so there is zero revenue to fund anything that isnt out of pocket. Most of it is time invested to manage it, Mighty Raze has been doing 99% of the leg work and managing it (thank you so much man).

Realistically, what keeps this forum alive is people who enjoy the hobby coming back and inviting their friends to join too. The Build Off was a pretty effective way to bring new people and retain peoples interest. Obviously that didnt work out too well this year, so maybe we need to try and devise something else to try and keep things fun and interesting.

I think the TTC and more group rides are a fun way to promote the forum, but covid makes travel and funds tough in some instances

Just my 2 cents but I'm not sure if it's the fact that people dont have any money right now. I know the unemployment rate has skyrocketed but there is still alot of people that can afford internet. In fact I would think the amount of people who have internet has went up due to alot of Jobs being online now and kids having school online. If you have internet your job opportunities is greater. I know that I wouldnt have been able to have started my own business and have it succeed if people didnt have internet anymore and they weren't "bored" which brings me to the next topic.

I know alot and I mean alot of people are busy with life due to covid but if you look at social media that's not necessarily the case. I mean look at YouTube for example: the amount of viewers, videos being posted, and overall statistics have gone up. Same with other social media outlets. This could be just kids though.

Honestly I think it comes down to the fact that it's a forum. I mean it's not 2006 anymore. We have social media which is alot quicker to finding people who have the same hobbies. I feel like only gearheads use forms anymore. (Its easier to watch a YouTube video on something than to go and read about it)

I think in order to have more members on the site you have to have people promoting the site. I'm not trying to say that the Administratiors aren't doing a good job at promoting the site I'm just trying to say it shouldn't be their job. I dont know if I've mentioned this but I shoot 3D Archery and my parents are both pretty involved in it. My mom actually use to be KY state coordinator. Every year archery grows and really it's all through word of mouth, the more kids the more friends they tell about archery.

Promoting something is really hard and I dont exactly know how to but the only experience I have with this is really archery. I know when S3DA first started the biggest promoter was actually ASA which is another Archery tournament provider.

Another thing I've noticed is in order to have and keep alot of viewers on YouTube you have to constantly keep up with trends and not only that everything you do has to be more interesting or just as interesting as the last. Like let's say you built a mower and you got a bunch of views well eventually people are going to get tired of it unless you step it up and make it crazier. The only problem is that there is only so much you can do using a lawnmower. If you truly want a good off road machine that's is just the rowdiest using a lawnmower your probably going to ditch everything and start over from scratch. This is where it gets expensive. So basically the only reason to use a lawnmower for off road use is because it's cheaper than a quad or some really nice built off road rig. I agree with @Maine Mud Mower but I think it's the other way around. I dont think we should go cheaper with our builds  cause thats just holding us back from doing greater things. Also let's be honest I'm never going to stop spending money on Brutus and upgrading it. Plus Its not like we're spending 10,000 dollars on a mower, I might have 1,500 in mine but still if you work hard you can afford it. I think you have to have viewers or members who enjoy it because it's cheap and not because its necessarily the "best" option, plus its easier for folks to modify something that already exists then it is to have the equipment and the knowledge to make something from scratch.

At the end of the day I dont know anything and I'm just some kid with a mouth. I dont know if anyone can make anything better and if anything will get better but it doesnt mean that we should all get depressed and quit doing what we like to do. "If you spend all day worrying about tomorrow you cant enjoy today"

I think it'll be alright no matter what happens. Nothing kills my vibe.

I think more organized group rides in ‘21 are the best shot we have in promoting the forum. Haspin is a great example, or the TTC that @redzz02 hosts, or the scenic trails off-road park ride that @CreepyCrawler hosted, as well as the rides he hosts at his house. Id like to host a ride at the badlands or redbird off road park (both in indiana). I know there’s a bunch of group rides up in Michigan too with @mr_studabaker. But the only way those are gonna help is through youtube videos and promoting through social media outlets such as Facebook and Instagram. Possibly Twitter too.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a jeep or side by side guy not be impressed with our machines. It’s something different that anyone can do but not everyone does. Passing out stickers and selling T-shirts at those kinds of events, plus promoting our own personal YouTube channels to spread our fun even wider with videos of the group rides and showing the support of our communities.

I think for a lot of people, covid has made life really hard, but I know for a lot of other people, they’re bored and taking to social media. Face it, the people coming into this community are likely kids that don’t have the money to play with a quad or jeep, but a mower build is easily attainable and fun to thrash. I say we take to social media and group rides to promote the forum and convince others to join into the fun!

i myself have considered entering the build off many times but time is always an issue with me. and maybe some don't compete, or don't finish is due to they Don't have the money to keep up with some of the builders who do, and feel like they don't have a chance so they drop out.

if i were to do a build even if i did have a fat stack of cash i'd rather build with leftovers. maybe a couple or three different classes would make a difference.

and as for me i wouldn't even care about a prize! just the title of winning would be enough.

i'm always thinking of a build while looking through my horde, and if the opportunity presented it'self that i felt that i had time i'd like the chance to jump in even if it was half over.

just my 2 cents

CraftsmanQuad19 wrote:

I think more organized group rides in ‘21 are the best shot we have in promoting the forum. Haspin is a great example, or the TTC that @redzz02 hosts, or the scenic trails off-road park ride that @CreepyCrawler hosted, as well as the rides he hosts at his house. Id like to host a ride at the badlands or redbird off road park (both in indiana). I know there’s a bunch of group rides up in Michigan too with @mr_studabaker. But the only way those are gonna help is through youtube videos and promoting through social media outlets such as Facebook and Instagram. Possibly Twitter too.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a jeep or side by side guy not be impressed with our machines. It’s something different that anyone can do but not everyone does. Passing out stickers and selling T-shirts at those kinds of events, plus promoting our own personal YouTube channels to spread our fun even wider with videos of the group rides and showing the support of our communities.

I think for a lot of people, covid has made life really hard, but I know for a lot of other people, they’re bored and taking to social media. Face it, the people coming into this community are likely kids that don’t have the money to play with a quad or jeep, but a mower build is easily attainable and fun to thrash. I say we take to social media and group rides to promote the forum and convince others to join into the fun!

Agreed 100%

I’m interested in entering the original CraftsmanQuad into the ‘21 buildoff. It’s getting a full rebuild. I’ve got about 90% of the parts to complete it so I know I can get it done in time.

I think buildoff classes are a good idea, but may not work well with as few of finalists we have this year. If it’s as small as this year, one class free for all. But if traffic picks up and there’s a lot of entries, maybe classes would be a good idea. Whether they’re based on build type, cost, or overall builder skill. Like a <500 class, 500-1000 class, and a 1000+ unlimited class. Would be tough to prove exactly how much is in it without proper receipts, but if we outline engine, trans, frame, tires, miscellaneous parts (belts, pullies, battery, lights, etc) we should be pretty close

We've pretty much decided at this point to probably skip 2021 Build-Off. Events can promote the site, but many do not post their rides in the forums. I've snagged the TTC video's this last year for the site. I agree many have moved over to Facebook for their updates and communications. I can say getting new members isn't an issue. I "activate" several a week.

It basically comes down to all of us and whether we update each other on what we are doing. Initially the site was created by FearlessFront around Feb 2010 when much of this on "YouTube" was fresh and new to many. He later handed it off to @Doug who is now the site Owner. There was a boost to the site in 2016 when @Doc Sprocket entered with the Diesel Weasel. Since then the site has dwindled. Every now and then we have an uptick in members and posts, then it falls again. A couple years ago we had an issue with a couple members, one of which took things a bit too far in some of our opinions and was perma-banned. Since then the site quieted down tremendously. Even some of us that posted all the time.

I personally would love a 2021 build-off as there is a tractor about 100 miles from the house that I would love to build.

diddie wrote:

maybe a couple or three different classes would make a difference

I don't think that would get us more entries, just more categories that had only 1 or 2 finishers. I "personally" have an Idea that I need to talk with @Doug and the rest of the staff. It's a possible rule change that would open it up for more builds. I'm sure there is reasoning for it, and possible opposition. I'll save that for another day.

Promoting is hella hard. Since the site has no income, everything has to be paid from pocket. Back in I think '13 we did the sticker thing which Junkstar started and I took over, but that was more of a novelty and aside from making my wallet lighter didnt do much to help the forum. You hardly ever saw them in videos or photos on social media. Forums are a great place, far better than social media in terms of documenting things. In reality, the best and really the only way to promote the forum is through word of mouth to your friends and personally getting them interested in the hobby and subsequently joining the forum. No amount of prizes or swag are going to draw more genuine people.

We will do something for 2021, but it probably wont be the Build Off as we have come accustomed to over these past few years.

So I'm pretty new to this forum, but not to building stuff. I got to say I really like this format. But again I think people have to be used to the forum type of site. I get a lot of great information from this forum and many others for different items. I agree, when you post on FB...your post gets lost after a day and forgotten about. Now.. I have many many years of building and beating junk. I have now just decided after watching YouTube and reading this forum to build a legit off roader. With that said I think it is more of a time issue for people on the build offs, I know that it sees like you have a lot of time in the beginning but life catches up with you and your build gets put on the back burner not permanently but on hiatus. Then you lose time on build off and such, then I believe people just opt out of the build off and keep working on their rigs when they can afford parts and time. I would love to enter the next build off.....I just picked up a 1976 Wheel Horse B-80, but it has issues, ....trans was full of lube and mostly water, so got to pull that apart, also lock it, needs tires, I broke a rear hub removing it, it has no breaks etc. I just picked up a 1970 Kohler K301 for it but that has to be gone trough, needs whole carb, (previous owner broke the housing on the carb. blah, blah. You get the picture it is a project, but not one that I can put a time limit on. I know that you don't have to spend a lot of money on a build but for me I want to build one great one and keep upgrading that one great one to make it better. Again I am pretty new here, I'm not sure how the build offs are judged but maybe classes i.e. New builds, returning builds, build capabilities through sent in videos and vote on them. I don't know, Maybe a small entry fee that people can win at the end to keep people motivated. I don't know, but you fellas are doing a great job and keep it up, there are those of us who still like this type of forum. Thanks just my opinion, trying to help any way I can.

I love using the forum. I hate Facebook for other reasons than losing your build post in a few days (even though that is one of them), but those reasons are irrelevant to the forum. I've went back and just read through the Lawn Tractor Repair and MM thread just for the heck of it. I love being able to document my builds. But that's all irrelevant to the BO.

I agree with @diddie. One thing for me with the MM last year was the money. I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I thought it would be easy until I saw the builds like the scrap yard murray and Patriot, the MKII... I didn't really have a chance with my budget and tractor. That's the point where you wonder why you entered and if you should drop out. Somehow I found a way to make enough money and get enough time to keep the MM up to par.

Group rides are great. But they only happen in PA, IN, and MI. I've yet to hear of one anywhere else. So no as of the moment, unless some of us start hosting group rides in other areas, I don't see them being a big help. Of course, if group rides in other areas become a thing (I personally would be alright with hosting one out at Rockcrusher Farm in North GA), I could see some traffic pick up here on the forum.