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 Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch

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Rustbucket Garage
TechnoChicken
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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 12th 2021, 8:22 pm

So...
A couple weeks ago I bought a wheel horse 210-5 lawn tractor for about 50 bucks I got the thing running drove it around for 15 seconds and decided it was too slow, so I decided to pulley swap it. The stock was 4 inch front and 9 inch rear and it is now 6 inch front and 4 inch rear, I did my pi and calculated the belt size but the problem is that I got 2 belts, one an inch longer than the other and the small one will not disengage, so it just grinds into 1st with the clutch to the floor, the bigger one disengages fine but just slips and flies off all the time. So my question is do you guys think that using the electric pto clutch would work for the drive or is there a better way to fix this?
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 12th 2021, 9:09 pm

I'd recommend moving an idler pulley in a bit further to increase tension on the longer belt, or vice versa on the shorter one. I don't know how the electric clutch would work since mower decks, snowblowers, and the other couple of PTO implements these tractors have don't have near the engagement load as the whole tractor, and they activate much faster than a pulley clutch. I think that you'd probably fry the clutch or the transmission so I wouldn't try it. Then again I'm not the most knowledgeable guy on here so that's just my 2c.

Welcome to the forum by the way, sounds like you have a neat project! Lotta WH guys on here Smile
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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 13th 2021, 7:30 am

What you said about the PTO clutch is pretty much what I thought (I figured it might just burn out after a while) but about the mechanical one, should I just add a second idler I will take a pic of the belt setup so you guys can see it...
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 13th 2021, 9:45 am

...and Welcome to ATLTF!


Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
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Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Sig214Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Sig314

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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 13th 2021, 12:14 pm

Welcome

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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 13th 2021, 1:26 pm

so I mocked up the electric clutch and its too thick for the belt to clear the clutch bar so I guess I have to rig up something for the mechanical clutch I think the reason that It doesn't work is because the rear pulley is too small... has anyone else run into this kind of thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 13th 2021, 3:53 pm

Question... the smaller one that does not disengage.  Does it have slack?  If so, you probably need some belt guides on the engine and transaxle.

I typically go with sides of the pulley.

   o                        o
  /--------------------------\
 |O                          O|
  \--------------------------/
   o                        o


Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Sig214Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Sig314
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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 13th 2021, 6:21 pm

The smaller one does not slack off enough to disengage and I think it might have some thing to do with the rear pulley being smaller.
A couple more questions
-When going around corners at high speed (I haven't driven it for more than 10-15 min) it tends to lean quite a bit because of the rocking axle at the front and scares the crap out of me, is there a high chance of this thing rolling and should I bolt/weld the front axle.
-the "wonderful" idiots at briggs made the starter gear on the flywheel out of plastic so it now has a bald spot right before the compression stroke and you have to turn it about 1/2 a turn to get the thing to spin over if it stops on the compression stroke, has anyone else run into this and is it terribly difficult to replace?
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 13th 2021, 10:07 pm

Here is more info about mower starters than you probably need.

https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=lawn+mower+starter+gear+replacement+
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 14th 2021, 7:52 pm

Was driving it around my property today and snapped the cable for the throttle... I might try one for a bike this time?
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 14th 2021, 7:52 pm

I was referring to the gas pedal I rigged up.
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 14th 2021, 8:13 pm

I very much don't recommend using an electric PTO as a clutch. The purpose of the clutch isn't just to on/off engage the trans, but to allow slip which is very crucial for control and handling of your machine. An electric PTO can't do that, its simply on or off. Its also highly susceptible to water and mud.

Stick with the tried and true configuration. If you're having slip issues, try to move your clutch closer to your engine pulley so that you have more belt wrap up front. You can also add another idler closer to your drive for the same effect. Extra keepers will help keep your belt on, just be sure to have them so you can get your belt back on (J shaped keepers will usually accomplish this).


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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 14th 2021, 8:26 pm

Yeah, I figured I might need some keepers to keep the belt from coming off
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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 14th 2021, 8:30 pm

also, this one has absolutely 0 brakes, I haven't found any problems with this but do you know of any cheap brake options?
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PostSubject: Re: Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch   Using the pto clutch as a drive clutch Icon_minitimeDecember 15th 2021, 1:01 am

TechnoChicken wrote:
also, this one has absolutely 0 brakes, I haven't found any problems with this but do you know of any cheap brake options?

For better braking, always lock your trans, whether by welding or a full length straight axle. Braking on an unlocked transaxle is pretty risky and can hurt a lot.

Without getting too technical, redesigning your brake linkages to a separate pedal and using new brake pucks cut from automotive brake pads. Ive also been able to modify the rotor on a transaxle brake allowing the use of a small brake drum to use a band brake.

Second would be putting a full length straight axle in your transaxle and running a go-kart brake rotor, whether mechanical or hydraulic (which will take some more work running lines and such).

Engine braking is always your friend, which is why you need that manual clutch. Youll do most of your downhill braking with that.


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