Had a few ideas for Selectable 4WD builds

Hey guys.

I had a few ideas this past weekend after thinking about possibilities for 4x4 tractor builds. I've seen Puppetkicker's and wetheralmaplefarm's awesome 4x4 builds. They are both great setups and I am very impressed and intrigued by both.

Puppetkicker's appears to utilize "select-able" 4 wheel drive, using independent gear selectors on each transaxle (front and rear). So leaving the front in nuetral would result in 2 wheel drive. I really like the idea of selectable 4 wheel drive. The down side of this to me though is that it doesn't appear you can shift both transaxles on the fly (when moving)...or it would be tricky to do. It also seems to leave the possibility of breaking things if there were ever operator error that allowed the transaxles to be in different gears.

wetheralmaplefarm's build has the linkages connected and synced up between both front and rear transaxles. This works pretty good from what I can tell, but you are basically forced into full time 4 wheel drive. Which for mudding is obviously fine, but you may not want this all of the time.

I like the idea of selectable 4 wheel drive, with a single gear selector/linkage setup so you can shift on the fly in 4 and 2 wheel drive.

I had a few ideas for ways to make a dual transaxle 4x4 setup selectable using some already existing tractor parts.

Idea 1: I have a husqvarna with an electric PTO pulley for blade engagement. I thought to myself that 1 or more of these might be able to be used on the belt system connecting the front and rear transaxles. When powered off the pulleys would just be free spinning but once engaged, they should lock up and connect the transaxles to create 4x4. I am wondering how much "power" these PTO clutches can hold. I'd imagine they can handle a decent amount as they seem to be able to keep the blades spinning through nearly anything. I'd imagine you can double up on them for even more strength if needed.

Idea 2: We used to have one of the snow blower attachments for our DYS4500. The blower itself died, but there was a belt/clutch system that we still have. It's pretty much a belt driven jack shaft w/ clutch system that mounts on the frame. If this or something similar could be setup to connect the 2 transaxles, then this could create the selectable 4 wheel drive as well. The clutch system I am talking about is pretty much this:


Anyway, they are just some ideas I had. I was wondering if anyone else ever toyed around with these ideas or not. It's not something I am going to be doing in the near future, but maybe one day I will toy around with a 4x4 build and see how things go.

I like your pto clutch idea the most, but as you said the abuse is questionable. Also, I'd wonder how well it holds up in water if I was to make a 4x4 theirs a good chance is going underwater. I'd like to see someone make a true 4x4 weld both front and rear axles posi.

But anyways yea, selectable 4x4 would be nice. Especially if you have a FNR (single speed) aws axle, instead of the 5 speed axles people use.

I like puppet kickers the most, those mst axles are very stout for 3/4" axles.

redlinemotorsportts wrote:

I like your pto clutch idea the most, but as you said the abuse is questionable. Also, I'd wonder how well it holds up in water  if I was to make a 4x4 theirs a good chance is going underwater. I'd like to see someone make a true 4x4 weld both front and rear axles posi.

But anyways yea, selectable 4x4 would be nice. Especially if you have a FNR (single speed) aws axle, instead of the 5 speed axles people use.

I like puppet kickers the most, those mst axles are very stout for 3/4" axles.

thanks redline. I also realized the water could be an issue too but it's definitely an interesting concept. I like the idea of a fully locked 4x4 as well, but it would probably very hard to steer and be hard on the front transaxle. Now if someone wants to build electric diff lockers for tractor transaxles then that would make for some good times!

You make some very good points, and I had the same thought regarding Puppetkicker's setup. It's "neat", but a ticking bomb in my opinion. One merely needs to mis-shift, and you're picking up peices for hours.

Now- I've heard people musing about using an electric PTO clutch as thier main drive clutch, and I am convinced that it is an exercise in futility. Just NOT up to the abuse. BUT: If one were to use an electric PTO clutch SOLELY to drive the front axle, and "downstream" of the drive clutch, it may well be ok. That way, the electric clutch sees no abrupt load changes. Switch on and off while main drive clutch is disengaged.

The water thing is a whole other story.

Best be, may be the lowest-tech. I picture a traditional-style tensioner type clutch going to the front axle from the rear. But instead of on a pedal, it's on a handle that locks in. Then, regardless of anything else (gear position, main drive clutch position), the front axle is either driven, or not.

In this manner, the front transaxle will shift with the rear, and yet freewheel when disengaged.

Doc Sprocket wrote:

You make some very good points, and I had the same thought regarding Puppetkicker's setup. It's "neat", but a ticking bomb in my opinion. One merely needs to mis-shift, and you're picking up peices for hours.

Now- I've heard people musing about using an electric PTO clutch as thier main drive clutch, and I am convinced that it is an exercise in futility. Just NOT up to the abuse. BUT: If one were to use an electric PTO clutch SOLELY to drive the front axle, and "downstream" of the drive clutch, it may well be ok. That way, the electric clutch sees no abrupt load changes. Switch on and off while main drive clutch is disengaged.

The water thing is a whole other story.

Best be, may be the lowest-tech. I picture a traditional-style tensioner type clutch going to the front axle from the rear. But instead of on a pedal, it's on a handle that locks in. Then, regardless of anything else (gear position, main drive clutch position), the front axle is either driven, or not.

In this manner, the front transaxle will shift with the rear, and yet freewheel when disengaged.

I agree. The tensioner style clutch is probably the best and simplest to implement. Besides, most tractors will have a handle already for the blade engagement that could be used as well. If I ever do a 4x4 build, I think this is the route I would take.

Doc Sprocket wrote:

Best be, may be the lowest-tech. I picture a traditional-style tensioner type clutch going to the front axle from the rear. But instead of on a pedal, it's on a handle that locks in. Then, regardless of anything else (gear position, main drive clutch position), the front axle is either driven, or not.

This is how I always thought of doing it. Not that I'm going to, but it would be nice to make a good clean 4wd setup on a mower.