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 A really good safety feature...

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PostSubject: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 6:59 pm

I was running my mower awhile ago, and I just started to think about it now. I have an unlocked diff cause I go trailing instead of mudding (flexibility and what not) ANd I was racing around my yard at about 15 MPH, and I turned and it slowed down....It actually was trying to tip over, but when it started to lean, the unlocked diff started to turn the wheel in mid-air, making the other wheel lose power and slow the tractor. Has anybody else actually though of this?
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 9:01 pm

Basic physics

But is handy in the situation you described.
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 9:04 pm

i have a open diff and i hate it for exactly tht resonlol
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 9:35 pm

I'd rather lose 10 seconds (Absurd number that I came up with) off a lap than lose about 3 minutes trying to un-flip a 300 lb. (???) Tractor.
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 9:48 pm

Ive tipped the Rally twice so far, once actually ejected me down a 3' embankment (into snow), and I had no problem flipping it over. Mostly because since I have a Vtwin I didnt want oil getting on my cylinder.


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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 9:49 pm

Doug, do you mean like tipped or rolled?
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 9:56 pm

Tipped. Square nose Craftsmans dont roll too well.


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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 10:00 pm

I know how that goes, I don't think I've had any Craftsmans roll over on me...then again, the only craftsman I've drove was a LT1000
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 10:17 pm

So far i havet rolled or tipped anything.
YET.
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 10:23 pm

ive rolled almost all of mine....... lol
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeApril 2nd 2013, 10:25 pm

I've tipped, flipped, rolled, and jumped my old tractor; plus run it into trees, ditches, and rocks... No wonder I was always cracking the frame.

I may have tipped the new one once or twice but I don't think its been rolled yet.


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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeJuly 18th 2013, 6:10 am

Rolled over on top of me going up out of a creek
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeJuly 18th 2013, 10:02 am

Open diffs are fine for slower speeds, and off road. If you are going over 20mph on pavement, and use the stock brakes, be prepared to crash. One tire will lock up, unlock, then the other tire will do the same, causing a violent swerving motion. I've darn near crashed one doing this, very lucky I didn't.

As far as one tire spinning in a corner, it will slow you down, quite a bit at times, if you are racing. We got very good at high speed, 2 wheel corners on the old machines with the locked diffs. They were taller and narrow, very tippy. Newer ones are lower and wider, and very rarely tip. Most of the time they slide.

Heres a video of what you can do with a locked diff, we did it at much higher speeds when racing.

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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeJuly 18th 2013, 12:45 pm

how do i stop without locking my diff?
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeJuly 18th 2013, 12:51 pm

The tractor will stop, the problem Stretch brought up happens when you lock them up on pavement. The open diff death-wiggle is a scary feeling.


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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeJuly 18th 2013, 12:52 pm

i plan on traveling on pavement but not locking the brakes up and skidding to a hault
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeJuly 18th 2013, 1:20 pm

TheRainbowBoxer wrote:
The tractor will stop, the problem Stretch brought up happens when you lock them up on pavement.  The open diff death-wiggle is a scary feeling.

It's funny - as often as Ive left my differentials open, and used stock brakes... I never had the death wiggle occur. Pavement or otherwise... *shrugs*
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeJuly 18th 2013, 5:23 pm

prometheusEDI wrote:
TheRainbowBoxer wrote:
The tractor will stop, the problem Stretch brought up happens when you lock them up on pavement.  The open diff death-wiggle is a scary feeling.

It's funny - as often as Ive left my differentials open, and used stock brakes... I never had the death wiggle occur. Pavement or otherwise... *shrugs*

Some stock brakes don't have enough stopping power to do it. If you can skid the tires at high speed, that's when it can happen.
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeJuly 18th 2013, 7:06 pm

dylansrockinrigs wrote:
i plan on traveling on pavement but not locking the brakes up and skidding to a hault

Panic stops are rarely planned.

An open diff at speed on loose gravel can net you some freaky results too. I built my kids' go kart with a diff axle from an RER, and applied a hydraulic disc brake to it. If you're boogying in the loose stuff and smack the clamps, not only will it have a tendency to favour the looser side, but get this- the tire with the lesser traction will actually SPIN BACKWARDS occasionally!

To lock or not to lock? Well- in the general interest of both traction and safety, I'd say lock it if your tractor is capable of more than about 10 MPH. As far as the slowing you down in a turn thing, well- that'll sharpen your driving skills, no? LOL
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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeJuly 18th 2013, 7:11 pm

Also, if you lean in to the turn, you wont have to worry about it flipping (at least as much). If I ever notice im tipping out, I just lean right in. Plus it will put more weight on the inner rear tire and allow the outer one to slip more so you can turn sharper.


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PostSubject: Re: A really good safety feature...   A really good safety feature... Icon_minitimeJuly 18th 2013, 7:24 pm

Doug Fackler wrote:
Also, if you lean in to the turn, you wont have to worry about it flipping (at least as much). If I ever notice im tipping out, I just lean right in. Plus it will put more weight on the inner rear tire and allow the outer one to slip more so you can turn sharper.

Mmmm, yes, and no. One of the "tricks" to better steering with a live axle (locked) is to REMOVE weight from the inside rear tire. If that tire can slip a bit, it sort of adds a wee bit of differential action, cutting down on understeer. One of the ways that this lift is accomplished is through frame flex. With a stiff or reinforced frame, proper frontend geometry becomes more critical. The proper combination of camber, caster, and KPI all work together to create a jacking effect that effectively removes weight from the inside tire.

As far as leaning goes- yes- leaning into a turn will help keep you upright. On the other hand, you don't want to apply too much weight to that inside rear. A good balance of the two? Lean FORWARD and in. Trying to get the outside tire to slip is a near futile exercise- centrifugal force and inertia already throws the weight bias to the outside. Work with it, not against it.
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