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 New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.

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1997 Murray
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Doc Sprocket
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 1st 2013, 8:32 am

redzz02 wrote:
actually the gears are not all steel, one type is steel the other is i forget what they are made out of, they tell you if a magnet sticks to the gears your in luck, also if the bushings are not brass your gonna want to get new ones, ive had them lock up on me in minutes because they would melt to the shafts, also id remove the reverse chain 700's are getting harder and more expensive to find, at least around here, that chain will explode sooner or later and more than likely sooner its not fun at all
They are either machined steel, or sintered steel. I have 3 700's and a ton of documentation. FWIW- 700 gearsets are NOT unique, and are shared amongst the more common Peerless boxes, which also use primarily sintered gears. A magnet is useless in telling the difference. Sintered steel is also ferrous.

What's the difference?

A machined steel gear starts out as a normal casting- molten steel is poured into a mold. After cooling and solidifying, machines cut and grind the gear to it's final shape. All features are machined in. Forming a sintered part is cheaper and easier. The material is NOT heated until molten. Instead, it starts out in powdered form. The powder is loaded into a die (mold) and is formed in the mold with great pressure and heat, but NOT melted. Just very hot. When removed, it's done. Zero machining, the mold is a precise form of the finished gear. This process is a LOT cheaper than machining, and that is why it is done.

However- the molecular structure of a sintered steel part is different than that of one which is forged and machined. It isn't quite as strong, and doesn't weld as well. This has a lot to do with why welded mower diffs have a fairly high failure rate (and one reason of several why I chose a different diff-locking method). The spider gears in our diffs are also made with this process.
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Thunderdivine
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: 700 Peerless   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 1st 2013, 6:23 pm

Been checking ebay and seems a 428 Motorcross bike chain can be used. for a HEAVY DUTY reverse chain.
And from what I can see, all my gears are from powder metal, none seems to be machined steel.

Also some 800, 801 and some 820 have Machined Steel gears, Lookup google and search for 700 gearing and steel gears, you will find it.

I won't bother with anything fanzy now, keep it stock, but oilfilled and shimmed, and run a beafier reverse chain, that will have to do.
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Doc Sprocket
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 1st 2013, 7:06 pm

The bike chain sounds like a very good idea. I may well do the same for MULEII. Although the purpose is utility, I will be giving it's 700 the "race" treatment... But I need reverse.
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 1st 2013, 8:47 pm

im fully aware other trannys share the same gears as the 700 series, just from my personal experiences and where im located its getting harder and harder to find the, and its not the gears that go, its the casings that decide to go, and im sorry i miss printed that meaning putting a magnet to the bushings if they dont stick your good, and the fact that like you stated the forged gears are stronger and thats what racers look for, i had my brain completely mixed up
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 2nd 2013, 4:26 am

I bet its the shocks and knocks that breaks the cases, so how about to rubber mount the whole gearbox? Yes there is tough rubber mounts out there, usually found on automotive gearboxes..
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Thunderdivine
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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 2nd 2013, 8:56 am

Since I'm going Hilliard 1" x 4.5 inch dia clutch (Engages at 1800rpm), to the Peerless 700 4.2" Pulley, I ordered me a 5/8"  toothed belt instead of the classic. Any thoughts of that matter?

Also I decided to bolt in the front axle. Making it easy to swap and change the type to heim type if i want to later down the road.
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Ariens YT11
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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 2nd 2013, 10:46 am

the toothed belts are cooler running because of the teeth on them. that is the only benefit from them
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 2nd 2013, 3:56 pm

I would offer the following:

The 5/8 belt should offer better grip, as long as you have B-section or combination pulleys to take advantage of that fact. The cogged belt will run cooler, and may help compensate for the fact that a B-section belt suffers a greater friction loss than an A-section belt. B-section belts tend to be lousy for manual clutching, but since you're using a centrifugal clutch, you should be good there.

A word on centrifugal clutches from a go kart nut-

Keep an eye on your gear ratios and tire sizes. Hilliard Extreme Duty is a brand name, and nothing more. It is an off-the-shelf clutch, no better than a Comet or Max Torque. If you need a clutch that can take REAL abuse, you need a racing clutch like a Noram.

As you're doing your shakedown runs, watch for excessive slip and check that the clutch doesn't get too hot. Heat kills these clutches.
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Thunderdivine
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 2nd 2013, 4:04 pm

Doc Sprocket wrote:
I would offer the following:

The 5/8 belt should offer better grip, as long as you have B-section or combination pulleys to take advantage of that fact. The cogged belt will run cooler, and may help compensate for the fact that a B-section belt suffers a greater friction loss than an A-section belt. B-section belts tend to be lousy for manual clutching, but since you're using a centrifugal clutch, you should be good there.

A word on centrifugal clutches from a go kart nut-

Keep an eye on your gear ratios and tire sizes. Hilliard Extreme Duty is a brand name, and nothing more. It is an off-the-shelf clutch, no better than a Comet or Max Torque. If you need a clutch that can take REAL abuse, you need a racing clutch like a Noram.

As you're doing your shakedown runs, watch for excessive slip and check that the clutch doesn't get too hot. Heat kills these clutches.
Cool.

And yeah I know about clutches and heat, it's rated 13HP I think. I'm using it since I had it from last build. Tho it was supposed to go on the Scorpio Hydro build.

Depending on how the CVT works on the Craftsman build, i'm switching to CVT also on this. Hopefully a mean mowcheen CVtech one.
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 2nd 2013, 4:20 pm

OMG CAMBER!

New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 869076E5-CC2A-4133-804D-806FC09F0FDB_zpstjewshlx

Not the correct size rim, 8" in the picture, front will be 6".

8* Caster 8* KIP

Camber will 0* out when I straigten down the hub.


Last edited by Thunderdivine on December 3rd 2013, 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typ0)
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 3rd 2013, 1:01 pm

We had the OilSeal instock at work, This will replace the O-ring and keep a tight seal when switching from TAR to Gear Oil,
on the Peerless 700

I had to modify the outside of the OilSeal, but we do this all the time.
ECC Wanted $10 for ea. Tho we sell them for 0.06$ @ Work

New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 A7ACFF53-964C-412F-8267-DF7B45168331_zpseedbuzw6

If you need some OilSeal's Thats 5/8" (16mm) ID and 11/16" (22mm) OD and about 3/16 (4mm) Thick, give me a PM.


New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 553959F3-7AED-4237-8952-B4A125F7B16B_zps1fwkpesy
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 3rd 2013, 3:29 pm

Hmm. I might need one.
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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 3rd 2013, 3:38 pm

redlinemotorsportts wrote:
Hmm. I might need one.
Hmm..
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 3rd 2013, 6:51 pm

6 cents to buy, $75 to ship from Norway... LOL

If any North American members are interested, I have a Timken part #, should be available from any local auto parts store.
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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 4th 2013, 5:13 am

Doc Sprocket wrote:
6 cents to buy, $75 to ship from Norway... LOL

If any North American members are interested, I have a Timken part #, should be available from any local auto parts store.
Prob $2 in a letter envelope.

Then I admire your local auto store if they have these things in stock. Our store's don't have ***** anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 4th 2013, 6:45 am

I find that (here anyways) the problem with auto parts stores tends to be knowledge and data. Sure- you can go in there and ask for the front main oil seal for your 83 Lada (LOL) and walk away with part in hand. But if you need that very same seal for a custom application and have only the dimensions and not an automotive application or major manufacturer's part number, you're sunk.

FWIW, the oil seal is Timken part # 340387. Quite usually, a parts store CAN reference a number like this.
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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 4th 2013, 3:01 pm

Doc Sprocket wrote:
I find that (here anyways) the problem with auto parts stores tends to be knowledge and data. Sure- you can go in there and ask for the front main oil seal for your 83 Lada (LOL) and walk away with part in hand. But if you need that very same seal for a custom application and have only the dimensions and not an automotive application or major manufacturer's part number, you're sunk.

FWIW, the oil seal is Timken part # 340387. Quite usually, a parts store CAN reference a number like this.
Agree, I always encourage shops to write dimensions when they can, take BMI. On 40% its says, fits yerf-dog and so on. But they should have had both dimensions and that it fits the particular model. - that's called 'more sale' or how you spell it.

My Oilseal is mounted cheers  Waiting for the chain.
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 4th 2013, 3:11 pm

Doc Sprocket wrote:
I
FWIW, the oil seal is Timken part # 340387. Quite usually, a parts store CAN reference a number like this.
Oh and we call those Lip Seals, That one I used have a spring inside (look on the picture), - Usually called an Single sided or a double sided Type WA and WAS OIl Seal.
But there are tons of types, but the spring keeps the tension on the axle at all times.

WA (sc)
New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 SC_text
WAS (TC)
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PostSubject: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 4th 2013, 3:22 pm

the bottom one looks like the ones that peerless put in the MSTs
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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 7th 2013, 7:22 pm

Whats new?
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PostSubject: Douglas alloy rims 8x8" & 6x5.5"   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 7th 2013, 8:58 pm

ELVIS invented bling!

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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 7th 2013, 9:38 pm

Huh. You have seemed to got my rims! Here- ill PM you my address so you can send them to me. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 9th 2013, 3:52 pm

redlinemotorsportts wrote:
Huh. You have seemed to got my rims! Here- ill PM you my address so you can send them to me. LOL

Ya think  Razz 

Also as you may figure from the picture, you want to drill and tap the right side of the 700. Im thinking of adding also an oil drain nipple in the bottom of it, will make it easy to swap the oil in it.


New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 FB390BE6-A1C8-416C-B312-86565B64997B_zps6yedilza

This is a Fuel fitting, will make a good oil drain nipple.

New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 C533B4BE-23C8-4A2E-A98F-6D89B5FC7E53_zpsxt6sfccr

New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 6300714B-F407-40A4-AAFF-392F59718CCD_zpsnapttvdp

New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 0F0E3D76-2394-493F-A390-81900B009264_zpsnxreibno

New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 KGrHqFrcFGZg99E1vBRwCH2ccMw60_57_zps60f66aea

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Those tires looks like good subjects to burn off. LOL.
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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 9th 2013, 6:13 pm

New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 0F0E3D76-2394-493F-A390-81900B009264_zpsnxreibno

I like the check list,
1. Racing vehicle,                      NO
2. Asphalt or highway,               NO
3. Vehicle in assess of 600lbs,     NO
4. Jumping,                              NO
5. Recreational vehicle use,             Yes

LOL that cracked me up reading that!


Last edited by Ariens YT11 on December 9th 2013, 6:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeDecember 9th 2013, 6:19 pm

That IS pretty dang funny!

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PostSubject: Re: New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle.   New Sidebuild: JD210 - Racing Mower by the K.I.S.S. principle. - Page 3 Icon_minitime

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