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 Castle Garden 12.5/102

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Lawren Wimberly
CraftsmanQuad19
AllisKidD21
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MatthewD
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PostSubject: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 20th 2017, 7:41 pm

Evening gents Wink

This thread will contain photos/repairs of my grass cutting Castle Garden 12.5/102 lawn tractor. Drive train consists of a 1999 Briggs & Stratton 12.5 I/C Quiet, and a Peerless 700 (yes, I said that right)

Castle Garden 12.5/102 Img_2122
Castle Garden 12.5/102 Img_2120
Castle Garden 12.5/102 Img_2121

The current problem I have is fuel starvation (at least that's what it appears to be). You can start it up fine but once you start to cut grass it bogs down and dies. I've been through the carb and fuel system countless times and still the same thing happening. It isn't the coil I checked for spark right after it died and there was a strong spark. Any ideas?

Further plans are to re-wire (bypass the safety switches) and maybe 15" front tyres (has 13's on it now)
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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 20th 2017, 11:17 pm

Changing the tires on the front might affect the mowing deck.  You may need to adjust accordingly.  My in-laws had a mower that would eventually starve out theirs was the fuel filter and clogged high speed jet.  First couple things I would check are the fuel filter and the gas cap vent.  Both can easily starve the engine.


Castle Garden 12.5/102 Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
Castle Garden 12.5/102 Sig214Castle Garden 12.5/102 Sig314
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AllisKidD21
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 9:32 am

Cool mower! Does it have a live axle then? Also is it overheating? There's a small chance that's why it bogs down once it's under load.


"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
     
      - MTD Off-Road Build
      - Ford LT 110 Off-Road Build
      - Craftsman GT 6000 Off-Road Build
       - Sears LT11 Rat Rod Build *2019 Build-Off Winner!*


 Garden Tractor Collection: Allis B-110 x2, 710, 716, & 410 - Wheel Horse 655, 953 & 500 Special - Case 444 - Bolens Versamatic, G10 & 1668 Diesel Swapped - Cub 106, 124 & 1000/149 Frankentractor - Ford 120, LGT 125 & 145 - White 1650 Yard Boss - Moto Mower 710-100
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 10:10 am

AllisKidD21 wrote:
Cool mower! Does it have a live axle then? Also is it overheating? There's a small chance that's why it bogs down once it's under load.

I thought maybe loss of compression
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 11:32 am

CraftsmanQuad19 wrote:
I thought maybe loss of compression

I was thinking that too.

You did mention you went through the fuel system. Suspect
Other than bogs and dies, does it throw smoke when it does that? Also, just off the wall, when was the last time the spark plug was changed?




Castle Garden 12.5/102 Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
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MatthewD
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 12:58 pm

mightyraze wrote:
Changing the tires on the front might affect the mowing deck.  You may need to adjust accordingly.  My in-laws had a mower that would eventually starve out theirs was the fuel filter and clogged high speed jet.  First couple things I would check are the fuel filter and the gas cap vent.  Both can easily starve the engine.
I've replaced the fuel line and filter. I haven't checked the gas cap, that could be a possible cause.
AllisKidD21 wrote:
Cool mower! Does it have a live axle then? Also is it overheating? There's a small chance that's why it bogs down once it's under load.
Thanks! I can't see a diff on the axle so I think it does have a live axle. It's not over heating, runs pretty cool.
CraftsmanQuad19 wrote:
AllisKidD21 wrote:
Cool mower! Does it have a live axle then? Also is it overheating? There's a small chance that's why it bogs down once it's under load.

I thought maybe loss of compression
Do you mean once it warms up it loses compression? It starts and runs fine until you put it under load. 
mightyraze wrote:
CraftsmanQuad19 wrote:
I thought maybe loss of compression

I was thinking that too.

You did mention you went through the fuel system.  Suspect
Other than bogs and dies, does it throw smoke when it does that?  Also, just off the wall, when was the last time the spark plug was changed?


No smoke. I've tried various spark plugs in it, the current one is brand new.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 1:10 pm

Hmm.. Gas cap vent would be the simplest thing to check like mightyraze said.


"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
     
      - MTD Off-Road Build
      - Ford LT 110 Off-Road Build
      - Craftsman GT 6000 Off-Road Build
       - Sears LT11 Rat Rod Build *2019 Build-Off Winner!*


 Garden Tractor Collection: Allis B-110 x2, 710, 716, & 410 - Wheel Horse 655, 953 & 500 Special - Case 444 - Bolens Versamatic, G10 & 1668 Diesel Swapped - Cub 106, 124 & 1000/149 Frankentractor - Ford 120, LGT 125 & 145 - White 1650 Yard Boss - Moto Mower 710-100
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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 1:14 pm

valve lash may need adjusted...
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 1:18 pm

I didn't know you could adjust the valve lash on a Briggs flathead?


"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
     
      - MTD Off-Road Build
      - Ford LT 110 Off-Road Build
      - Craftsman GT 6000 Off-Road Build
       - Sears LT11 Rat Rod Build *2019 Build-Off Winner!*


 Garden Tractor Collection: Allis B-110 x2, 710, 716, & 410 - Wheel Horse 655, 953 & 500 Special - Case 444 - Bolens Versamatic, G10 & 1668 Diesel Swapped - Cub 106, 124 & 1000/149 Frankentractor - Ford 120, LGT 125 & 145 - White 1650 Yard Boss - Moto Mower 710-100
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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 1:33 pm

AllisKidD21 wrote:
I didn't know you could adjust the valve lash on a Briggs flathead?

you can, by filing the valve stems and or lapping the valves... that said, I didn't realize that was a flathead... the red cover made me think overhead valve... all of my briggs IC engines have the black and silver shroud
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 2:27 pm

Oh ok. I thought you meant they had adjustable lifters like the old Kohler K Series engines. Those things are handy haha!


"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
     
      - MTD Off-Road Build
      - Ford LT 110 Off-Road Build
      - Craftsman GT 6000 Off-Road Build
       - Sears LT11 Rat Rod Build *2019 Build-Off Winner!*


 Garden Tractor Collection: Allis B-110 x2, 710, 716, & 410 - Wheel Horse 655, 953 & 500 Special - Case 444 - Bolens Versamatic, G10 & 1668 Diesel Swapped - Cub 106, 124 & 1000/149 Frankentractor - Ford 120, LGT 125 & 145 - White 1650 Yard Boss - Moto Mower 710-100
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Lawren Wimberly
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 2:47 pm

AllisKidD21 wrote:
Oh ok. I thought you meant they had adjustable lifters like the old Kohler K Series engines. Those things are handy haha!

Briggs ohv engines have adjustable lifters... I had a 17.5 hp single that would do what the OP mentioned when the valves needed adjusting
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MatthewD
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 21st 2017, 2:52 pm

The Fuel cap isn't the problem. Gonna replace the coil next.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 22nd 2017, 2:47 pm

In the chat last night, @Lawren Wimberly suggested that the flywheel key might be sheared. Tore it apart today and the key is intact. Also replaced the coil with one that I know works and the problem still persists. So now I know it isn't a spark issue. This weekend I will go through the carb and fuel system again. I was also thinking that the valves could be sticking but that's unlikely.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 22nd 2017, 3:34 pm

Might look into a compression tester.



Castle Garden 12.5/102 Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 22nd 2017, 3:42 pm

Is there a lot of carbon built up in the combustion chamber? That would cause a lack of power.


"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
     
      - MTD Off-Road Build
      - Ford LT 110 Off-Road Build
      - Craftsman GT 6000 Off-Road Build
       - Sears LT11 Rat Rod Build *2019 Build-Off Winner!*


 Garden Tractor Collection: Allis B-110 x2, 710, 716, & 410 - Wheel Horse 655, 953 & 500 Special - Case 444 - Bolens Versamatic, G10 & 1668 Diesel Swapped - Cub 106, 124 & 1000/149 Frankentractor - Ford 120, LGT 125 & 145 - White 1650 Yard Boss - Moto Mower 710-100
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MatthewD
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 22nd 2017, 6:52 pm

mightyraze wrote:
Might look into a compression tester.  

When turning the engine over by hand, there seems to be enough compression. More than most of my flathead Briggs'
AllisKidD21 wrote:
Is there a lot of carbon built up in the combustion chamber? That would cause a lack of power.
I'm almost convinced it is a fuel problem, but it wouldn't harm to check. I have an 8hp flatty sitting doing nothing so I'm going to rob the carburettor off it just to see if it is a carb problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 22nd 2017, 8:55 pm

So it runs fine until you kick in the mower?  You mentioned Load.  Is that just mower or also drive?  If just mower, does all the mower blades turn OK and easily.  Is there an idler that could be frozen?

Does it do it just driving around?  Any pulleys there that could be going out?

Just throwing some other stuff out there.


Castle Garden 12.5/102 Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
Castle Garden 12.5/102 Sig214Castle Garden 12.5/102 Sig314
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AllisKidD21
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 22nd 2017, 9:01 pm

I agree with mighty, check the deck stuff to make sure it's not putting the engine under load too much. If the hubs for the blades are greaseable I'd give them a shot of grease.


"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
     
      - MTD Off-Road Build
      - Ford LT 110 Off-Road Build
      - Craftsman GT 6000 Off-Road Build
       - Sears LT11 Rat Rod Build *2019 Build-Off Winner!*


 Garden Tractor Collection: Allis B-110 x2, 710, 716, & 410 - Wheel Horse 655, 953 & 500 Special - Case 444 - Bolens Versamatic, G10 & 1668 Diesel Swapped - Cub 106, 124 & 1000/149 Frankentractor - Ford 120, LGT 125 & 145 - White 1650 Yard Boss - Moto Mower 710-100
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 23rd 2017, 12:31 pm

The first time I discovered the problem was when the deck was engaged, but it the same thing happens when driving and also if it's allowed to sit at full throttle without anything engaged. It's definitely an engine problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 23rd 2017, 12:38 pm

Could be something with the governor. Try disconnecting it and see if the problem still persists
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 23rd 2017, 2:08 pm

I don't think so because it doesn't happen right away. So I fitted the 8hp Briggs carb today and the same thing happened, rigged up a temporary fuel tank and same thing happened. Not sure what's going on.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 25th 2017, 7:18 pm

Took the head off and blew out all the carbon, took the carb apart and cleaned it out again and it ran a lot better than before. I got half my lawn done when it started surging (if you put the choke slightly on it will run fine, the prob i had before was different, it wouldn't run with or without the choke.) I assume it's still some dirt in the carb, gonna buy some carb cleaner this week and see if I can get her going again.
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PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 25th 2017, 8:10 pm

Was there a lot of carbon in there? If so I bet that would've been a big cause, carbon insulates heat which would probably cause it to start overheating after a while.


"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
     
      - MTD Off-Road Build
      - Ford LT 110 Off-Road Build
      - Craftsman GT 6000 Off-Road Build
       - Sears LT11 Rat Rod Build *2019 Build-Off Winner!*


 Garden Tractor Collection: Allis B-110 x2, 710, 716, & 410 - Wheel Horse 655, 953 & 500 Special - Case 444 - Bolens Versamatic, G10 & 1668 Diesel Swapped - Cub 106, 124 & 1000/149 Frankentractor - Ford 120, LGT 125 & 145 - White 1650 Yard Boss - Moto Mower 710-100
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Castle Garden 12.5/102 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitimeMarch 26th 2017, 12:23 am

surging? Hmm.... bad intake gasket?


Castle Garden 12.5/102 Sig115PROJECTS:
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Castle Garden 12.5/102 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Castle Garden 12.5/102   Castle Garden 12.5/102 Icon_minitime

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