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 Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin

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MCRideout
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PostSubject: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 28th 2013, 10:03 pm

Hi everyone,

I got a craigslist deal the other day. The tractor in the video below was only $50. I cleaned it up and discovered a few issues. The main issue right now is someone messed with the linkage on the carb. It was rigged up with a spring and piece of wire which let it run either at low-speed idle or a wide-open throttle.



I made a little video. If you think you can help me out please take a look. There is also a rotational noise coming from the transaxle that I think I will investigate further by cracking the case to change the fluid and possibly lock the gears up.

Thanks,
Mike
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Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 28th 2013, 10:42 pm

The missing screw is your limited for it. The linkage running to that butterfly is the throttle, regulated by the governor (the arm) and controlled by the throttle.

The screw needs replaced then adjusted, You also need to replace that spring, otherwise its running wide open all the time with the gov arm down like that.


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MCRideout
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Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 29th 2013, 6:57 am

Should I put the spring I took off back on? It looks like it was a DIY remedy. Is something else supposed to be there?
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 29th 2013, 10:14 am

Ill take a pic of mine later on for you, since I run an Intek twin as well.


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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 29th 2013, 7:45 pm

Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 29th 2013, 8:18 pm

What are the odds of me having broken governor components inside the engine?
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Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 29th 2013, 9:05 pm

MCRideout wrote:
What are the odds of me having broken governor components inside the engine?

Pretty good, actually. If somebody was overriding the governor, it could have failed internally. Not only have I seen it happen, I've HAD it happen. Step one would be sourcing a diagram and all required parts to get the externals back together. Then, attempt to adjust, and test. If adjusting according to the FSM does not work, it's time to crack it open.

Or, you could just crack it open. If the internals DID grenade, you can use that moment to decide whether to source the parts, or just remove all governor-related stuff and have done with.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 29th 2013, 9:54 pm

Thanks for the detailed response. If the governor is bad would I be able to control the throttle at all at the dash? I could control the throttle with the small spring connected. It wasn't until after I disconnected the spring that I started to have a problem. ,

I plan on running a gas pedal. I dont need a governor for that do I? Will I need to buy a gasket if I take the case off?
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 29th 2013, 10:25 pm

My group (5 tractors) bypasses governors as a rule and have no issues at all... I won't get further into the holy war that is the "to govern or not to govern" conversation.


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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 29th 2013, 10:38 pm

Yup, youre missing the spring and the limiter screw.

Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Img_0810

Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Img_0811


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Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 30th 2013, 5:45 am

TheRainbowBoxer wrote:
My group (5 tractors) bypasses governors as a rule and have no issues at all... I won't get further into the holy war that is the "to govern or not to govern" conversation.
Holy war, indeed! There are some pretty strong opinions out there, aren't there? Some factual, but a LOT of BS too...

Does this site have an "official" position on the subject? Am I gonna start stepping on toes?

I WILL say this much: It is my experience-based position that AS A GENERAL RULE, IF you are not going to use the governor, take the guts out. You MAY be okay bypassing it, and you may not. Some engine's governors are more tolerant of overspeeding than others.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 30th 2013, 7:23 am

Hey Doug,
I have the big spring but not the little one. How strong is the small spring? These pics are very helpful. Now to figure out the threads on that missing screw....

If after this the throttle is not fixed I will have to pop it open and take the guts out.
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Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 30th 2013, 9:27 am

I don't think there is an official position, but there are a few people who feel somewhat strongly on the subject in either direction. Holy war might be overstating it a bit...


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Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 30th 2013, 4:04 pm

Hi Doug,

Can you take more pictures of the areas circled below?

Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Pic_111

Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Pic_211

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Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 30th 2013, 4:55 pm

TheRainbowBoxer wrote:
I don't think there is an official position, but there are a few people who feel somewhat strongly on the subject in either direction. Holy war might be overstating it a bit...

Fair enough. I certainly have a firm viewpoint on the whole governor/flywheel thing- which I'd defend to the death- but I don't want to cause a ruckus bein' the new guy and all. But if anybody asks, I will *tactfully* give my opinion.
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Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 30th 2013, 9:05 pm

I took a closer look at my linkage today and I have some questions. I replaced the adjustment screw tonight too.

I'm pointing to a hole in the linkage that looks like it used to have something connected to it...Does anyone know about this?
Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Img_4511


In this picture, I am pointing to another hole that I think is supposed to have a spring in it or something...
Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Img_4512

In this picture, you can see a flat part of the throttle "wheel," and how it actually hits the spring attached to the governor...Is that normal? At low throttle it hits the spring, which keeps it from idling down anymore.
Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Img_4513

Here's a bottom view of the above photo. You can see the flat part of the throttle linkage hitting the spring.
Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Img_4514

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Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 30th 2013, 9:12 pm

That's not an original spring by the looks of it. I'd say wait for Doug to show you his setup.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 30th 2013, 10:05 pm

Yeah.
I have the same motor and if you want i can get some pics of the springs too.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 30th 2013, 10:20 pm

I'd appreciate the pics!

To recap the issues with this $50 tractor:
1) Governor/ carb linkage issues
2) rotational noise from the transaxle
3) leaking fuel pump
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeApril 30th 2013, 10:42 pm

MCRideout wrote:
I'd appreciate the pics!

To recap the issues with this $50 tractor:
1) Governor/ carb linkage issues
2) rotational noise from the transaxle
3) leaking fuel pump
Ok ill get pics then.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeMay 1st 2013, 12:23 am

Ill get some better pics tomorrow for you. The last ones I got were taken while I was upside down.


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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeMay 2nd 2013, 6:27 pm

Bump?
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeMay 5th 2013, 5:07 pm

The governor is toast. Now it's time to crack open the case and replace it. If I plan on running a foot throttle should I still run a governor?
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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeMay 5th 2013, 6:39 pm

Either a gov or get a good tachometer to watch your RPMs.


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PostSubject: Re: Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin   Need some help in diagnosing a runaway throttle issues on 20hp v-twin Icon_minitimeMay 5th 2013, 9:51 pm

I should still open the case and check for damage right?
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