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 Laws against small gas engine sales.

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Rustbucket Garage
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PostSubject: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 19th 2022, 12:51 pm

This is currently a USA question but could be the case across international borders.  Non-US members are HIGHLY welcomed to pitch in.  Especially if your country already bans new/existing small engines.

I'd like to start a new discussion about laws against the sale of new small gasoline engines.  How is this going to affect our Hobby and sport?

Example:
California Signs Law Banning Sale of New Gas-Powered Small Engines by 2024 | OEM Off-Highway (oemoffhighway.com)

Granted, at first, I see people crossing state lines to purchase repowers for their equipment until 
  1. Checkpoints to check your state imports like they use to do back in the day for produce.
  2. Other, if not all states ban new small gas engines.


This will kill companies that produce small engines, Kohler, Briggs, Honda, Predator, etc.  I see these killing things like gokarts , Motorcycles, atvs, utvs, generators, etc.  Older engines will become $$$ and sucked out of the marketplace, craigslist, etc.  Granted this law in California affects engines below 25HP.

My concern is this:  This is a foot in the door to take this further.  First it is engines below 25hp.  Then when does it become all gas engines...  then when does it become engines older than x number of years? Hopefully this does not domino into out into other realms, states, etc.

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Rustbucket Garage
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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 19th 2022, 3:01 pm

California is California. I think the rest of us are pretty safe.

Even then I think that since manufacturers can still make parts I think we’ll see something like the Armalite rifle platform here in NY where you buy a short block and head and then get parts for an “older but identical” engine. Wink

I think somebody will start making a Honda clone in that nature. And let’s be honest, not many of us here buy new OPE or engines anyways lol.

*Edit: I forgot about those who swap in Honda clones. My apologies.*
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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 19th 2022, 3:15 pm

Maybe those active now don't buy new, but we have some members like Crazy Carl and Creepycrawler to name a couple that have bought new Duromax engines recently.  I myself have bought a new engine to replace an older on grandpa.  Granted that was 5-6 years ago.  People that buy new Predator or Tillison popular 212s would be affected.  I understand California is California, but I have little faith with our current government officials that they would not use them as a precedent to make countrywide laws.  Politicians are making decisions these days pretty fast and furious.

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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 19th 2022, 3:45 pm

I must say, that ain't good, down here they already have their foot in the door with the "Carbon Tax", they are just taking a bigger leap in California, they can't seem to understand that electric vehicles are not the solution to a nonexistent problem.
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Rustbucket Garage
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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 19th 2022, 3:53 pm

We have similar issues in NY but I think that it’s going to be quite a while before we see any kind of phase outs and even then like I said it’s just new stuff that’s affected so it’s not the end of the world. That said I dislike it when politicians go off on a ban everything spree.

I hear we need to do a mud mower rally in front of the capitol! Very Happy

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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 19th 2022, 4:11 pm

TechnoChicken wrote:
I must say, that ain't good, down here they already have their foot in the door with the "Carbon Tax", they are just taking a bigger leap in California, they can't seem to understand that electric vehicles are not the solution to a nonexistent problem.  

It's not good.  We have too many "green deal" politicians that don't see the downsides of "the other side"  Yeah oil/gas pollutes.  But what about lithium pools seeping into the ground, or copper mines digging mass holes in the earth?  Windpower pollutes the skyline, solar farms kill birds mid-air, and powerplants still need a source of energy?  Basically a hand off of one for another.  Honestly, it's about who pads the politicians pockets the most that gets the win.

Rustbucket Garage wrote:
We have similar issues in NY but I think that it’s going to be quite a while before we see any kind of phase outs and even then like I said it’s just new stuff that’s affected so it’s not the end of the world. That said I dislike it when politicians go off on a ban everything spree.

I hear we need to do a mud mower rally in front of the capitol! Very Happy

Agreed, but I'm sure some pantie waist politicians are going to say our exhaust noise is threatening and our mowers scary as well.  They's probably think we were rioting.  Laws against small gas engine sales. 2664539216

_______________________________________________
Tractors:
Li'l Red - 89 Murray Widebody
TheGreenMachine - 89 Craftsman GT18
Bowser - 01 Murray Widebody LT 
Phoenix - 75 Sears ST/16
Dirty Rat - 77 Sears Suburban
Kal-El - 82 Murray GT
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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 19th 2022, 4:17 pm

MightyRaze wrote:
TechnoChicken wrote:
I must say, that ain't good, down here they already have their foot in the door with the "Carbon Tax", they are just taking a bigger leap in California, they can't seem to understand that electric vehicles are not the solution to a nonexistent problem.  

It's not good.  We have too many "green deal" politicians that don't see the downsides of "the other side"  Yeah oil/gas pollutes.  But what about lithium pools seeping into the ground, or copper mines digging mass holes in the earth?  Windpower pollutes the skyline, solar farms kill birds mid-air, and powerplants still need a source of energy?  Basically a hand off of one for another.  Honestly, it's about who pads the politicians pockets the most that gets the win.

Rustbucket Garage wrote:
We have similar issues in NY but I think that it’s going to be quite a while before we see any kind of phase outs and even then like I said it’s just new stuff that’s affected so it’s not the end of the world. That said I dislike it when politicians go off on a ban everything spree.

I hear we need to do a mud mower rally in front of the capitol! Very Happy

Agreed, but I'm sure some pantie waist politicians are going to say our exhaust noise is threatening and our mowers scary as well.  They's probably think we were rioting.  Laws against small gas engine sales. 2664539216
What you said about lithium pools and copper mines is what was on my mind as well, they're butchering their environment more by trying to "save" it then they are really saving it, Reminds me of something I saw from Engineering Explained:

Well well well...
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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 19th 2022, 5:00 pm

Then you get states like Florida that is basically kneecapping the solar industry with new regulations and red tape, removing incentives ect. They want people to "go green" then pull stunts like that?

What happens with all the batteries and the waste from electric lawn mowers, trimmers, cars ect. when they're no longer recyclable? Dug into holes in the earth?

Canada is pushing to be carbon neutral too fast, they should be encouraging more hybrid vehicles and not just trying to push strait into EVs in my option, try and ease the transition instead of forcing it. It's all about votes, if there truly was an actual climate crisis then the government would have more support for the work at home model and not allowing rocket after freaking rocket of space tourists to launch, talk about bad for the ozone and our atmosphere Holy cow! One rocket is probably worth all the cars on the planet and don't even get me started on the over seas tankers.... massive polluters!

They always go after the little guy instead of where the real problems lie
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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 19th 2022, 6:12 pm

I still can’t wrap my head around the generator ban. So if somebody is on an oxygen pump or an artificial heart you’re just going to let them die “to save the environment?” I’m at a loss with the whole thing. Some people…yeesh.

And they insist “just go green and it’s fine.”

Well the technology isn’t fully ready still so we’re just going to cripple ourselves in that way?

The cruel irony is that the push for electricity power is actually like y’all said worse for the environment. Cars and trucks and everything else has catalytic converters or DEF/ regen systems and all that other garbage and make basically no emissions. If you go to a smog city like LA the exhaust fumes are actually cleaner than the air going into the motor. Electricity comes from coal, and that’s a huge chunk of our CO2 footprint. Not people recreating or running diesel trucks or things like that. Electricity, which they say is “green.” Yeah, no. I’ll stick with my old Briggs any day. And even solar… we put some panels in because they are cheaper than grid power where I live but they ripped out about 200 acres of prime unmolested forest for a solar farm just down the road. That isn’t bad for the environment?

Sorry for the rant, just my .02 on the matter. Or rather .09 cause inflation. Lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 19th 2022, 8:04 pm

Not to mention California is also targeting RV generators as well and expecting them to switch over to battery banks, how unrealistic is that! What's next, only battery powered ATV and dirtbikes?! Talk about taking the fun out of stuff, the ripping motors are half of the fun!

I don't know about down there but up here ebikes don't require a drivers license but are still allowed on the road?! It's craziness! If you have a battery assisted bicycle you're good to go but put a tiny 50cc gas engine on it and you're getting ticketed by the first cop that sees you, doesn't make much sense to me because really what's the difference if it's powered by a battery or a small engine... it's still powered!
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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeMay 20th 2022, 3:12 pm

What really pisses me off is the fact that they are trying to totally get rid of the old system completely by cripling all the old cars, by producing all-electric cars NEW ones they have left all of the other cars in the dust what they need to do if they do want to go green is instead of scraping the older cars and making new ones which will put more waste into the environment, they need to make a suitable engine replacement which is a simple, cheap and cost-effective electric motor for those older vehicles and first of all, there is a better alternative to this and they need to pull their heads out of their #@! and build actual infrastructure for the means of this not to mention the fact that we have renewable fuels for internal combustion engines that are generally environmentally friendly of these fuels includes Hydrogen, Propane, and Ammonia. yes, you can burn Ammonia, and all that's left after the initial burn is hydrogen and water I've personally tried it and you only get 80% of the normal energy of gasoline but it is hardly noticeable and only costs 1$ a gallon to make but you gotta have the equipment first. And for diesel engines that are mechanically injected you can run fry oil which I've also done all ya gotta do is show up to a restaurant and ask if they have old extra fry oil you could have, some charge you but usually they give it to you if you got your own barel. yea can see all of ya guys' frustration they are trying to implement over a system without doing their research, hell I'm a hick from the sticks and I know about this why can the government with all their power look into other alternatives over a full replacement.

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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeJune 3rd 2022, 11:27 am

Going green is the new thing to distract and attract voters.
For a while it was drugs, humanitarian aid, wars or whatever people got really involved in.

But let's be honest, the u.s. has dropped the ball here a decade ago and now everyone is trying to catch up.
I've lived in the Netherlands the u.s. and Israel and while the u.s. was still pushing pollution other countries were already improving mass transit and in some cases even free mass transit outside of many other alternatives
I don't even need a car where I live, it's more a comfort thing if I need to just be somewhere in an emergency or for fun days.

On the other hand, ATVs utvs lawnmowers and motorcycles are being less regulated because we already fixed the biggest problems and understand that those are not part of the problem.
The problem is the day to day use of cars
Electric cars are still an oddity here as we understand it is simply a fad and not really a solution.

All iam saying: if this hurts it's because the u.s. dropped the ball a long time ago.
Iam not the type that's environmentally friendly but if you want some more freedom back you got to give a little aswell.
I know California's is always overdoing things so just ignore that for a while.
But that being said it would be in your own favour to maybe vote for someone that does want to make a change.

And before we get the "hurr Durr, you give them one inch and they'll take it all".
That's exactly why this always failed in the u.s. since it's a 2 party state and yes that means that you absolutely will swing the other direction unfortunately.
But it's better to try that and force the other side to take a better stance
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PostSubject: Re: Laws against small gas engine sales.   Laws against small gas engine sales. Icon_minitimeJune 3rd 2022, 2:29 pm

fbisurveilancevan wrote:
Going green is the new thing to distract and attract voters.
For a while it was drugs, humanitarian aid, wars or whatever people got really involved in.

But let's be honest, the u.s. has dropped the ball here a decade ago and now everyone is trying to catch up.
I've lived in the Netherlands the u.s. and Israel and while the u.s. was still pushing pollution other countries were already improving mass transit and in some cases even free mass transit outside of many other alternatives
I don't even need a car where I live, it's more a comfort thing if I need to just be somewhere in an emergency or for fun days.

On the other hand, ATVs utvs lawnmowers and motorcycles are being less regulated because we already fixed the biggest problems and understand that those are not part of the problem.
The problem is the day to day use of cars
Electric cars are still an oddity here as we understand it is simply a fad and not really a solution.

All iam saying: if this hurts it's because the u.s. dropped the ball a long time ago.
Iam not the type that's environmentally friendly but if you want some more freedom back you got to give a little aswell.
I know California's is always overdoing things so just ignore that for a while.
But that being said it would be in your own favour to maybe vote for someone that does want to make a change.

And before we get the "hurr Durr, you give them one inch and they'll take it all".
That's exactly why this always failed in the u.s. since it's a 2 party state and yes that means that you absolutely will swing the other direction unfortunately.
But it's better to try that and force the other side to take a better stance
Yea its absolutly stupid how much they will take and one of the largest problems is nither side can come to a comprimise so for the past however long it has and will be theyve waisted time trying to fix problems that already had solutions present.
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