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 Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up

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Mister_Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 30, 2019 5:24 pm

Completed a thorough low end tune with the throttle fixed at 2000 rpm's using the pc to monitor the rpm drop driving up the same hill over and over adjusting the timing each time. At the start the motor was only able to go 1/4 the way up. Now it can do half-way. Timing below 2k ended up 33° huh. Next step is adjusting the mid range. Gonna need a steeper hill.

Regards, Mister Studabaker
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Murraymountain
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 30, 2019 5:33 pm

You're gettin' that thing tuned in real fine like eh? lol! You're doin' great!
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mowerjunkie03
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Jul 31, 2019 11:48 pm

Amazing work man! I love to see people with this much dedication to there build. Lovely idea with the pivot pin. I am looking to take ths slop out of the articulation on one of my machines and will definitely take that into consideration.
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Mister_Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 01, 2019 9:33 am

Thanks guys,  Taking axle slop out is huge.  Tortured it yesterday and came through with flying colors.  Axle rolled up nicely from a deep rut to a high berm going down hill.

Other news did some 3k to 2k timing adjustment surprisingly the timing stayed at 33°.  Did a speed run afterwards and attained a top speed of 22.4 up hill on pavement.  That's about 4800 rpm.  Ran it again to make sure number was accurate, which it was.  The third run something happened.  Keizer slowed down a lot with a top speed at 16mph.  Hmm!  Drove home thinking uphill power run ran out of fuel.  Time for a fuel pump.  Picked one up 2-4psi and installed.  Lowered the float to accommodate the higher pressure and proceeded to test run.  Same result as third run.  UH OH!!!  This is not a good sign. Changed the oil found lots of aluminum chips.  Oh Crap!!!  Did it again, fried a rod.  Its either the oil or the Kohler doesn't like timing over 32°.  Funny thing is MBT (Max Brake Torque)is around 34° could be 32° as well.  At 36° lost power.  Looking into Kart racing oil.  Any ideas?  

Regards, Mister Studabaker
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AllisKidD21
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 01, 2019 9:38 am

Hmm, I wonder if it would be beneficial to rig up an oil cooler?

You would just have to find a way to pump the oil is all, but other than that it would be pretty straight forward.

_______________________________________________
"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
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       - Toro Rat Rod Tractor Build
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Mister_Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 01, 2019 9:43 am

Not a bad idea.  Its probably time to do such a thing.  

The computer has several access points that can be used to turn on a pump after a certain temp.  Maybe a pure mechanical gravity feed system.

Regards, Mister Studabaker
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Mister_Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 02, 2019 7:58 pm

Did you know that JB Weld has limited resistance to E85. Right side of picture inside of port epoxy lost its grip. Screw driver chipped the stuff right off. Very soft. Thinking reapply and seal with caliper brake paint.

Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2011

Canex the caliper paint for resistance to E85.  Softened up.  

Tried super glue nope softened

Permatex for loose fits.  MSDS says resistance to E85 (must be dry)... Will find that out tomorrow...

Meanwhile doing a little port clean up for the permatex for loose fits as a sealer on JBWeld and after reviewing the flow through the port and head saw a few restrictions to remove as well.  If you look carefully you can see where.

Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2012

Regards, Mister Studabaker
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prancstaman
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 02, 2019 10:55 pm

@Mister_Studabaker wrote:
Thanks guys,  Taking axle slop out is huge.  Tortured it yesterday and came through with flying colors.  Axle rolled up nicely from a deep rut to a high berm going down hill.

Other news did some 3k to 2k timing adjustment surprisingly the timing stayed at 33°.  Did a speed run afterwards and attained a top speed of 22.4 up hill on pavement.  That's about 4800 rpm.  Ran it again to make sure number was accurate, which it was.  The third run something happened.  Keizer slowed down a lot with a top speed at 16mph.  Hmm!  Drove home thinking uphill power run ran out of fuel.  Time for a fuel pump.  Picked one up 2-4psi and installed.  Lowered the float to accommodate the higher pressure and proceeded to test run.  Same result as third run.  UH OH!!!  This is not a good sign. Changed the oil found lots of aluminum chips.  Oh Crap!!!  Did it again, fried a rod.  Its either the oil or the Kohler doesn't like timing over 32°.  Funny thing is MBT (Max Brake Torque)is around 34° could be 32° as well.  At 36° lost power.  Looking into Kart racing oil.  Any ideas?  

Regards, Mister Studabaker

Maybe see how the piston rod failed. Rubbing off aluminum on the cap, on the rod end, of the bearing journal? Stretching of the bolts, cap? is an easy one. Too much timing would push the oil out of the way and burn the bearing journal.  Timing of an engine without any advancement ability, is usually set for cruise speed. Does your engine have any advancement ability?  Using a stationary ignition system for power tuning creates problems as you can see. 33 degrees is a lot of timing and putting stress on parts at lower rpms, is probably where the piston rod is failing and don't know it. The lower rpm's might be where the oil is getting pushed out of the journal and frying the rod and notice it only at high rpm's. Maybe make some kind of advancement setup for the ignition, if you don't have anything like that yet. Oil does have limitations, especially on splash lube systems, even though your rod has an oil hole on the cap dipper. Or maybe make an oil circuit for just the rod and main bearings. could be doable by drilling some holes and using an electric fuel pump.  

As for the timing of the ignition itself, after a certain rpm, the engine makes it's own timing for the rest of the rpm's. For example, my jeep engine likes 42 degrees of total timing. The timing curve starts at off idle, and the advance curve brings all the timing in at 1750 rpm. So from 1751 rpm and up, the engine makes it's own timing to carry the rpm's up to redline of 5500 rpm's.  Every engine's rpm is different at where it starts to make it's own timing and depends on how the cylinders work pretty much.

Just some ideas floating around in my head.
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Mister_Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Aug 03, 2019 5:34 pm

@prancstaman Great ideas and questions that challenged my thought's  "good show" thank you.  

Few things, Keizer does have a computer installed that controls all facets of timing curves.  The first time the rod failed was when testing the top end power.  Parameters below 3k rpms was set to 20° advance.  Every point above was steadily increased up to 36° which was when noticeable power was lost and motor became very hot.  Tweaked the timing back to 32° 3K rpms and up and proceeded to do a shake down run to the big hill which is about 2 miles away (motor had stock cam and running 93 octane).  Was running lucas 30w for high millage vehicles at that time.  Made it as far as 1.75 miles before the motor let loose (rod bearing melted with no apparent cap movement).  The second time, oil was switched back to 5W30 quaker state ultimate durability, switched fuel to E85 for better cooling.  Completed MBT testing 2K-1k rpm and found 33° was MBT.  Set all ignition parameters to 33° and went to the big hill for 3k-2k MBT test.  Found that 33° total advance was spot on for higher rpm power as well.  Motor was still holding together with no apparent noise and rev'd cleanly during the hill climbs.  Satisfied that all was well, decided time to go home and do a speed run up the paved hill.  Managed to full runs until the third one.  Which was when to motor slowed, that's when the minor melt down began.  Two big things came from this.  Car motor oil is not made for splash lube motors and timing may be ok at 33° with proper oil.  ARC Racing has a video segment talking all about oil and drank the kool-aid. Switching over to Lucas karting oil this week. Please note a very cautious move up the timing ladder will be made after the TTC.  For now 30° will be tops during the shake down run next week until a firm grasp of this situation can be had.  ARC Racing also suggested that big blocks need more than one oiling hole to keep the rods alive and a move to .0035" bearing clearance will help was running .002" to .0025".      

Lots of variables here and conclude that "All bets are off at this point, anything goes"  

Regards,  Mister Studabaker
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Mister_Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 04, 2019 8:59 am

Fixed up the crispy rod end.
Little heat caused the flat end to go a little side ways.
Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2013

Dowel pins are used to square the cap to the rod.  Wrist pin and rod bolted to bed to ensure square and parallels under rod end for clamping.  Ran indicator down
dowel pins to see how square rod end is to bed.  A few taps to center and time for clamping.
Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2015

Once fully secured pushed the dowel pins out and ran end mill down the sides to square.  All cleaned up.  Next step bore the i.d. to accept inserts.
Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2014

Inserted dowel pins again to now bring the rod end to but up against the rod.  Lightly clamped and pushed the dowel pins out and screwed in rod bolts almost to recommended torque settings.  Finish tightened the clamps to secure to mill bed.  Bored to Ø1.623", supposed to be Ø1.625" but the crank pin lost a few thousandths.  This is to be made up with via a smaller bearing insert clamp hole Ø1.623".  Will trim the inserts to accommodate this further down the road after the crank is cleaned up later today.
Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2016

Regards,  Mister Studabaker
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Mister_Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 14, 2019 9:34 pm

Update:  Put the crank in an old block along with the rod and an old piston to set up the lapping of the crank pin.  Used valve lapping compound to true things up along with a fresh set of bearing inserts.  The crank pin turned out pretty good.  Pretty close to round all the way around.  Though the one section still has a groove that is about .0005" smaller that the rest.  Set the clearance at .0035-.004".
Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2018
Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2017
Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2019

After modifying the bearing insert to align with the rod oiling hole, thinking, leave this as one oil hole set up.  Chamfered the bearing edges to fit the crank and ran a dry fit.  Looks good to me "Sending it to the TTC"
Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2021

Most recent install as of today 8/14/19 Keizer has a Prototype tuned intake.  Could not resist this one.  Used 1-1/2 drain pipe for sinks.  Size is a little big for a perfect tune but hey this stuff is all guess work any way.  Each motor is different.  After a few hiccups and a couple of drag starts the power band is beginning to show up in the low to mid range power 2500 to 4000 rpm.  Lost some at the top and that is ok it still revs to 5K.  The original air filter backing was left as a stick guard.  
Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2023
Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Img_2022

Regards, Mister Studabaker
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Mister_Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2019 1:13 pm

All the hard work is paid in full.  Keizer did not fail.  Well maybe the prototype air filter set up.  Water logged filters make for a very slow motor.  A reward for all the effort a video of the Top Tractor performing.  Enjoy

Regards,  Mister Studabaker


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AllisKidD21
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2019 2:06 pm

I saw the video earlier today, Keizer is definitely a force to be reckoned with!

Congrats on the wins!

_______________________________________________
"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
       - MTD Off-Road Build     
       - Toro Rat Rod Tractor Build
       - Ford LT 110 Off-Road Build
       - Craftsman GT 6000 Off-Road Build
       - John Deere 110 Basic Off-Road Build
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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2019 2:14 pm

Nice... that thing is a tank!

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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2019 2:29 pm

I didn't read through this thread previous to the top tractor challenge. Pretty cool being able to play with the ignition timing so easily. I've gotta read this through from the beginning when I get a chance. This thing sounded pretty hot at the event, congrats on the win! Not sure if you stated it earlier in your thread but what kind of mill do you have? I bought a small one off littlemachineshop.com about a year ago with a tiny lathe to play with cylinder heads and stuff and it's nice for aluminum.
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2019 8:38 pm

Question, not sure if you mentioned it or not, but does that Cub have a locked trans?  Maybe a limited slip trans?  I noticed you can hit those turns well but still 2 wheel peel...

_______________________________________________
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Sasquatch II [2017 Finalist]
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2019 9:28 pm

Well done & congratulations ! A lot of work and trial and error payed off !
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Mister_Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2019 9:51 pm

@mr.modifiedThe mill is a Clausing and lathe is a six foot bed south bend.  They are my pops.  Fully outfitted.

@MightyRazeSure is welded, but at the pins, it allows the axles to move a little bit.  The turning bit may be from the front tires as the front max have awesome turning grip, much needed to move the 800# gorilla around or could be the 322# front end weight or all. Turning sharp is not its claim though.  Every corner during the challenge had to be carefully scrutinized to wheel that sucker around.

@diddie Thanks a bunch Sir and you aint a kidding.  Some folks take 3 months to paint a tractor making it art.  Wonder what you would call taking 3 months to perfect mechanical parts?


Regards,  Mister Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2019 9:54 pm

I'd still call it a work of Art! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder !!
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2019 9:58 pm

@Mister_Studabaker wrote:
Wonder what you would call taking 3 months to perfect mechanical parts?

Bringing The Monster To Life sounds about right to me!

_______________________________________________
"This'll either wake you up or put you to sleep forever!"- Red Green         "Whatever you do you should do right, even if it's something wrong." - Hank Hill
       - MTD Off-Road Build     
       - Toro Rat Rod Tractor Build
       - Ford LT 110 Off-Road Build
       - Craftsman GT 6000 Off-Road Build
       - John Deere 110 Basic Off-Road Build
       - Allis B-110, 710 & 716 - Wheel Horse 655 - Case 444 - Bolens Versamatic - Cub Cadet 106  - Jacobsen YT 14 -
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 21, 2019 6:19 pm

I was thinking today, since you have the ability to program your spark settings, is it possible to set up a rev limiter? Or do you have one set already? Not sure what kind of program ect that your using, maybe it wouldn't be too hard though.
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 21, 2019 9:32 pm

@mr.modified Everything is run off the governor.  Its set at 5k.  The ignition is from Autosportlabs.  Its called megajolt.  This was picked up last year and may have the hard rev limiter.  The one in the link below does.

https://www.autosportlabs.com/product/megajolte-mk2_crank_fired_ignition/

It was pretty easy to set up and install after some thought on where and how it was to be installed.

Are you thinking about this in one of your projects?

@diddie @AllisKidD21   You guys are awesome, thinking the same thing too.

Regards,  Mister Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 22, 2019 12:43 pm

I was just curious. That's pretty neat though.

Are you running a stock cam?

Edit: Saw the nifty pics on the first page, that's a pretty nice kit they give you with that ignition setup. Nice work with the valves and head also. Looks cool!

Edit #2: This might be Top secret information, but how much does your Kohler weigh?
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Mister_Studabaker
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 22, 2019 8:00 pm

@mr.modified  Was for a while then switched over to full race cam.  Lots of spicey heat in that motor.  Still working out the tuned intake length.  The kohler weighs 118#s.  Its not close to light but was compensated for with a raised front end by just a little past above center-line.  Keeps the front light and bouncy.

Saw a version of you simplicity today.  They look cool stock as well.

Regards, Mister Studabaker
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mr.modified
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 23, 2019 1:10 am

Nice. The good thing about those older cast iron engines is that they have a lot of meat on them for modifications. You could probably make your own billet connecting rod with your mill if you wanted to. Gotta watch the worlds fastest indian (2005) if you haven't seen it before.
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PostSubject: Re: Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up   Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Aug 23, 2019 8:12 pm

Yup, an old busted prop off an airplane would do nicely for some meat for a connecting rod.
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Keizer the Little Cub Cadet 122 is growing up
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