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 Project VAP Off-road logger

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Crazy_Carl
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Hammernco
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PostSubject: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 14th 2023, 8:41 am

Hi Guys, time to start a new thread for my first build.
Planning on using it to help me carry the chainsaw, jerry cans, tools and help me pull some logs in a family forest left untouched for decades!
The terrain is very muddy and big enough to need a little workhorse to ease the chores along and blast it once the job is done to have some fun!
Like everything I own, I can't leave it alone !
And turning this french Murray 11/36 into a log puller is quite of a task !!!

Here it is as I baught it!Project VAP Off-road logger Screen11

Baught some used ATV 19x8 wheels for it and was gonna use all 4 all around but don't like the stance so ordered some 22x10 for the rear coming shortly.
It should help the stance and lift that I want to achieve 
Project VAP Off-road logger 16996314

As some of you may noticed, the frame is not the original one as I purchased a full unknown chassis with a running 13hp OHV B&S as the 11hp didn't have any compression left Sad
Plus the newer chassis is longer and in better shape, just need to beef it up a bit to add weight and strenght were needed

Done upgrading the steering using some heims and ball joint I had laying around, quite happy with the out come, once I replace or upgrade the spindles bushings it shouldn't be any play in the steering! Hopefully!

Out with the flimsy old Project VAP Off-road logger 16999610

In with the new:
Project VAP Off-road logger 16999611

And a general view with the tires back on:
Project VAP Off-road logger 16999612
Next in order is pulley swap, but reasonably to retain some torque for pulling but a bit of speed for toying around Wink
I have many planns for it but will update as I go
Let me know what you guys think!
Cheers

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BairleaFarm
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 14th 2023, 9:20 am

Speed ratios to balance between work and play are my biggest issue.  Hard choice
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 14th 2023, 9:28 am

BairleaFarm wrote:
Speed ratios to balance between work and play are my biggest issue.  Hard choice
Yup, tried to do some math but I'm terrible at maths!!!
And for now really need it more of a puller than a player ....

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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 14th 2023, 1:15 pm

BairleaFarm wrote:
Speed ratios to balance between work and play are my biggest issue.  Hard choice
I had a spreadsheet to help with that, gimme a bit to find it
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 14th 2023, 1:38 pm

TechnoChicken wrote:
BairleaFarm wrote:
Speed ratios to balance between work and play are my biggest issue.  Hard choice
I had a spreadsheet to help with that, gimme a bit to find it
Awesome that would be great!
Thanks a bunch!
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Brianator
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 14th 2023, 6:30 pm

Looks cool!

I've done a few pulley swaps to get more speed and keep a low 1st gear so I should be able to help, tell me what size the pulleys are and info on the trans (model if you know, how many speeds) plus a pic or 3 (pulley included) and I can advise/guestimate pulleys vs. speed. 13mph (20kph) is usually achievable with only swapping the rear pulley which is a decent boost from stock but doesn't kill low gear.

Does that have just a rear transaxle or does it have a transmission under the seat AND a rear trans?

If you're handy consider building something like this, I made one out of an old transaxle, some scrap metal/wood and a trailer tongue to haul 16ft 2x6's and it worked minty, it's just like towing a trailer!
Project VAP Off-road logger Ironba10


My All Terrain Tractors:
- "The WarHorse" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Romping in Progress!)
- Roper "Trailblazer" ~ 1986 Roper LT110CR (Trailblazing in Progress!)
- The "Mud Duck" ~ 1969 Bolens 1225 Hydro (2022 Build Off 2nd place!)
- The "Silver Bullet" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Part 1)
- The "Silver Bullet" (Take 2) ~ 2024 Build Off entry (Work in progress)
- Roper "Offroadster" ~ 1979 Roper T4328 (Romping in Progress!)
- 1973 Massey Ferguson MF12 ~ (Sold to a good home)



                             Click Here To See The DIY and Build Threads I've Created!

                                            ~My Real Hobby Is Collecting Projects!~

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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 14th 2023, 9:28 pm

Hammernco wrote:
TechnoChicken wrote:
BairleaFarm wrote:
Speed ratios to balance between work and play are my biggest issue.  Hard choice
I had a spreadsheet to help with that, gimme a bit to find it
Awesome that would be great!
Thanks a bunch!
Here's one for belt size (this is approximate, technically assumes the the belt wrap on pulleys it about 50%, that being said I have flipped through a lot of trig and math books and can't seem to figure out how to make it 100% accurate) that being said for most purposes this should be around 95% accurate unless you have a 1:16 pulley ratio with a 10 inch space between shafts or something stupid like that.

And I just made up a quick speed calc but I'm really tired so hopefully its done right, somebody maybe can put in some know values and check it, I will look over and make it nice tommorrow  

[EDIT] Just remembered I forgot to add engine RPM, will fix that shortly

[EDIT 2] Ok got rpm in there now, have fun with it

[EDIT 3] Fixed link


Last edited by TechnoChicken on November 14th 2023, 10:04 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Brianator
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 14th 2023, 9:39 pm

@TechnoChicken I'll try to help you see how accurate it is but you need to open access to the speed calculator first


My All Terrain Tractors:
- "The WarHorse" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Romping in Progress!)
- Roper "Trailblazer" ~ 1986 Roper LT110CR (Trailblazing in Progress!)
- The "Mud Duck" ~ 1969 Bolens 1225 Hydro (2022 Build Off 2nd place!)
- The "Silver Bullet" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Part 1)
- The "Silver Bullet" (Take 2) ~ 2024 Build Off entry (Work in progress)
- Roper "Offroadster" ~ 1979 Roper T4328 (Romping in Progress!)
- 1973 Massey Ferguson MF12 ~ (Sold to a good home)



                             Click Here To See The DIY and Build Threads I've Created!

                                            ~My Real Hobby Is Collecting Projects!~

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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 14th 2023, 9:59 pm

Brianator wrote:
@TechnoChicken I'll try to help you see how accurate it is but you need to open access to the speed calculator first
Oh yeah, stupid me lol
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U9pipuxbYqII82XRAEFGiIAR1SzGFllAfDWpnDQpFgs/edit?usp=sharing

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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2023, 2:55 am

Brianator wrote:
Looks cool!

I've done a few pulley swaps to get more speed and keep a low 1st gear so I should be able to help, tell me what size the pulleys are and info on the trans (model if you know, how many speeds) plus a pic or 3 (pulley included) and I can advise/guestimate pulleys vs. speed. 13mph (20kph) is usually achievable with only swapping the rear pulley which is a decent boost from stock but doesn't kill low gear.

Does that have just a rear transaxle or does it have a transmission under the seat AND a rear trans?

If you're handy consider building something like this, I made one out of an old transaxle, some scrap metal/wood and a trailer tongue to haul 16ft 2x6's and it worked minty, it's just like towing a trailer!
Project VAP Off-road logger Ironba10
Thanks for the insights, will try to shoot some pictures and take a few measurements in the next couple of days. As far as transaxle in the rear all I know is in this newer chassis it appears to be a Peerless transaxle wich model exactly remains unknown as it is covered in grime and didn't get a chance to get to it yet. 
The original chassis has a Peerless 700 wich I planned to reuse at first on a live axle but my plan changed once I seen Ritchies's winch !!!
For the log craddle, I'm not there yet, tractor first and then will implement it as I need.
Looks fairly easy to build to!

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Hammernco
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2023, 3:09 am

Awesome! Trully appreciate it! This will help quite a bit !!!  Might be a dumb question but wonder which end to swap to retain some torque ? Rear as Brianator suggested?
Thanks a lot !
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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2023, 7:37 am

Hammernco wrote:
Awesome! Trully appreciate it! This will help quite a bit !!!  Might be a dumb question but wonder which end to swap to retain some torque ? Rear as Brianator suggested?
Thanks a lot !
Torque is just based on gearing, technically doesn't matter, however the bigger the pulleys, the more grab the belt will have, and the less slip. However, the grab is only as much as the smallest pulley, so you will want to swap the front if only doing one, or I would recommend swapping 1:1 with the largest pulley you can fit on the front. ( say 6" rear, 6" front would be good)
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 15th 2023, 8:20 am

TechnoChicken wrote:
Hammernco wrote:
Awesome! Trully appreciate it! This will help quite a bit !!!  Might be a dumb question but wonder which end to swap to retain some torque ? Rear as Brianator suggested?
Thanks a lot !
Torque is just based on gearing, technically doesn't matter, however the bigger the pulleys, the more grab the belt will have, and the less slip. However, the grab is only as much as the smallest pulley, so you will want to swap the front if only doing one, or I would recommend swapping 1:1 with the largest pulley you can fit on the front. ( say 6" rear, 6" front would be good)
That makes sense! Will see what I can find if my pile as I don't want spend much on this thing even though a couple pulleys wouldn't explode the budget.

Really appreciate the input
Thx

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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 19th 2023, 7:34 am

Alright, moved a bit forward on the project, got the new rear wheels installed yesterday and started playing around with pulleys and clutch Scream
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2010
I choosed to use the front deck pulley from the 11/36,tu use as drive pulley and retain the stock transaxle one for now.
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2010
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2011

Being cheap as I am, instead of buying a new belt, I shorten the chassis a couple inches 😂😂
Hope the pictures show as I do it from my phone!
Have a good one y'all!
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 19th 2023, 9:18 pm

Cool build. Man, I need a lathe...

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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 20th 2023, 2:18 am

Threewheela wrote:
Cool build. Man, I need a lathe...
Yeah man they are a great addition to a shop, tooling can get expensive though!
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 20th 2023, 5:50 pm

Got a bit more done today!
Welded the floorboards that I cutted from the 11/36 chassis, then mounted the rear fenders with hopefully enough clearance from the tires!
Once all that done, sat back and thaught the front wheels weren't enough far ahead so welded back the portion that I cutted initially to fit the hood without gutting the hood, well, gutted the bottom of the hood and don't regret 🤣🤣🤣.
Gonna weld the front end tomorrow with some caster and gussets in case of high speed runs!
Rather weld it than bolt it back using the flimsy stock bolts!
Here are some pictures for entertainment!
Let me know what you think! SWB or LWB?

Floor boards in short wheel base
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2012
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2013

Long wheel base and chopped hood
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2016
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2014
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2015
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Brianator
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 20th 2023, 8:45 pm

Long wheel base for sure and I say that not just because it looks bad@$$ but a longer wheelbase is better for climbing hills and will add stability at speed too!

Looking good man, keep at er!


My All Terrain Tractors:
- "The WarHorse" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Romping in Progress!)
- Roper "Trailblazer" ~ 1986 Roper LT110CR (Trailblazing in Progress!)
- The "Mud Duck" ~ 1969 Bolens 1225 Hydro (2022 Build Off 2nd place!)
- The "Silver Bullet" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Part 1)
- The "Silver Bullet" (Take 2) ~ 2024 Build Off entry (Work in progress)
- Roper "Offroadster" ~ 1979 Roper T4328 (Romping in Progress!)
- 1973 Massey Ferguson MF12 ~ (Sold to a good home)



                             Click Here To See The DIY and Build Threads I've Created!

                                            ~My Real Hobby Is Collecting Projects!~

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RichieRichOverdrive
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 20th 2023, 10:25 pm

Long wheelbase is always good! Mid frame stretches are getting popular here among our riding group, stretching in the middle of the frame moves more weight up front than just moving the front axle. I will say that just moving the front axle helps though! Most of us stretch out to a 48-50” wheelbase.

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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 21st 2023, 5:26 am

Brianator wrote:
Long wheel base for sure and I say that not just because it looks bad@$$ but a longer wheelbase is better for climbing hills and will add stability at speed too!

Looking good man, keep at er!
Thanks Man! So hopefully it is a win win situation! Should be  a bit better for pulling a heavy trailer if needed, need to readjust all the steering components I built last week but I believe it is the part of the modding game!!
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 21st 2023, 5:33 am

RichieRichOverdrive wrote:
Long wheelbase is always good! Mid frame stretches are getting popular here among our riding group, stretching in the middle of the frame moves more weight up front than just moving the front axle. I will say that just moving the front axle helps though! Most of us stretch out to a 48-50” wheelbase.
Yup, gonna need to find me some hills to climb Wink
Wheel base is right at 51 inches! 
More weight will be added shortly with the 700 winch up front! 
Need to figure where to put the car battery I have for it, it fits under the seat but might contact the terminal on bumpy roads so thinking about moving it right behind, above the upcoming rear hitch.....
So many things to think about, dunno where to start sometimes.....
Thanks for following up and chiming in Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 21st 2023, 6:48 am

@Hammernco If you don't know where to start think about what kind of terrain you ride and what kind of things you plan on doing with it. Then if you have specific goals you can use the wealth of knowledge on ATLTF to plan out your build.

Car batteries are heavy and if your property is hilly, then maybe think about moving the battery as far forward as possible for a better center of gravity.

Or maybe you don't weigh a lot, you have an aluminum transaxle so maybe you want that weight in the rear for traction?

It all depends
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 21st 2023, 8:08 am

Crazy_Carl wrote:
@Hammernco If you don't know where to start think about what kind of terrain you ride and what kind of things you plan on doing with it.  Then if you have specific goals you can use the wealth of knowledge on ATLTF to plan out your build.

Car batteries are heavy and if your property is hilly, then maybe think about moving the battery as far forward as possible for a better center of gravity.

Or maybe you don't weigh a lot, you have an aluminum transaxle so maybe you want that weight in the rear for traction?

It all depends
Property is mostly flat land ;( and planning on pulling a trailer full of firewood and gravel, and maybe use it to dig a trench so thinking the weight outback should do it and also no way to place it upfront ;(
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 21st 2023, 8:23 am

@Hammernco what's great about using it for logging is that your track width should be about 10" or so narrower than an ATV which makes it pretty easy to maneuver around the woods

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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger Icon_minitimeNovember 21st 2023, 11:58 am

Got some front end reinforcement done during lunch, basically fully welded the stock axle, fixed the play in the spindles bores and beefed up a bit the soon to be non bolt on craddle!
Didn't go for a a whole lot of flex, it should be sufficient!
Also tried to find the exact power output of my engine googling the engine codes but no luck..
If any of you know I'll be glad to know if it's a 13.5 or 15hp?
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2018
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2019
Project VAP Off-road logger Img_2017

More to come tomorrow!
Cheers!
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