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 Project VAP Off-road logger

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Crazy_Carl
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Brianator
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Hammernco
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Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 21st 2023, 11:58 am

Got some front end reinforcement done during lunch, basically fully welded the stock axle, fixed the play in the spindles bores and beefed up a bit the soon to be non bolt on craddle!
Didn't go for a a whole lot of flex, it should be sufficient!
Also tried to find the exact power output of my engine googling the engine codes but no luck..
If any of you know I'll be glad to know if it's a 13.5 or 15hp?
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2018
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2019
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2017

More to come tomorrow!
Cheers!
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Brianator
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 21st 2023, 12:30 pm

A 28ci could be anywhere from 13 to 19hp I believe, it depends on the carb model, am I correct to assume it has a Walbro? I want to say WT54 would be a 18hp model but it's been months since I researched it all so I could be wrong.


My All Terrain Tractors:
- "The WarHorse" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Romping in Progress!)
- Roper "Trailblazer" ~ 1986 Roper LT110CR (Trailblazing in Progress!)
- The "Mud Duck" ~ 1969 Bolens 1225 Hydro (2022 Build Off 2nd place!)
- The "Silver Bullet" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Part 1)
- The "Silver Bullet" (Take 2) ~ 2024 Build Off entry (Work in progress)
- Roper "Offroadster" ~ 1979 Roper T4328 (Romping in Progress!)
- 1973 Massey Ferguson MF12 ~ (Sold to a good home)



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Crazy_Carl
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 21st 2023, 12:37 pm

Nice welds on the axle reinforcement.

You have a 28 cubic inch sleeve bearing engine built in 03. It's either a 12, 13, 14 horsepower.

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RichieRichOverdrive
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 21st 2023, 5:18 pm

The 28ci OHV I had was a 14.5. All of the 31ci engines I had were 17.5hp. Pretty safe bet that yours is a 14.5.

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Hammernco
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 22nd 2023, 3:22 am

Brianator wrote:
A 28ci could be anywhere from 13 to 19hp I believe, it depends on the carb model, am I correct to assume it has a Walbro? I want to say WT54 would be a 18hp model but it's been months since I researched it all so I could be wrong.
Thanks for chiming in, will have a look at the carb to find out, boy it is hard to find infos on those engine !
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 22nd 2023, 3:25 am

RichieRichOverdrive wrote:
The 28ci OHV I had was a 14.5. All of the 31ci engines I had were 17.5hp. Pretty safe bet that yours is a 14.5.
Hopefully, but being a european model, might be a smaller power output, europe is gready in terms of HP! LOL.
So if I understand well, the HP output is based on the carb only ?  all the 28 CI share the same engine?
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Hammernco
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 26th 2023, 8:11 am

A bit of update since I had a little bit of time to work on the mower.
The front end is back in fully welded with 10 degrees of caster, steering is back and lengthened to accommodate the new wheel base. Slight problem I spotted, bumpsteer, figured I will address this matter if it really borther when ridding.
About to fuse the rear transaxle in for good next week but before, I would like to know how much slack is a good belt slack for clutch disengage?
Is there any rule of thumb?
Should the belt be able to be removed from pulley when clutch push in?
Any Infos would be great Grin.
Thank you guys!
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MightyRaze
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 26th 2023, 11:07 am

Big thing is make sure your belt is snug when no clutch and not necessarily fall off when clutched.  Belt guides are 100% needed to make sure your belt disengages well.  Should your belt sag quite a bit, some kind of J hook style guide or one of those twist guides will help A LOT! Placed at the center of the sag.

Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Hus-5310

Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 51kifu10


Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Sig214Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Sig314
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RichieRichOverdrive
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 26th 2023, 11:41 am

I have ran clutches at varying slack, Mutt's currently has just enough slack for you to pop the belt off of the engine pulley. On that setup I had to add lots of keepers to centralize the slack around the engine and transmission pulleys, so the belt disengages from them. On the other hand, the GT6k has tons of slack with the belt pushed in and took just a few belt keepers to make work. I think Budgie was the same way, tons of slack and just a few keepers.

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Hammernco
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 26th 2023, 3:35 pm

MightyRaze wrote:
Big thing is make sure your belt is snug when no clutch and not necessarily fall off when clutched.  Belt guides are 100% needed to make sure your belt disengages well.  Should your belt sag quite a bit, some kind of J hook style guide or one of those twist guides will help A LOT!  Placed at the center of the sag.

Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Hus-5310

Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 51kifu10
Well noted Mighty.
I have some of the stock ones that I can manage to move around finding the best spot.
So you think I should weld the transaxle in place when the belt is snug clutch out and work on the clutch mechanism to get the needed slack to desengage?
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 26th 2023, 3:38 pm

RichieRichOverdrive wrote:
I have ran clutches at varying slack, Mutt's currently has just enough slack for you to pop the belt off of the engine pulley. On that setup I had to add lots of keepers to centralize the slack around the engine and transmission pulleys, so the belt disengages from them. On the other hand, the GT6k has tons of slack with the belt pushed in and took just a few belt keepers to make work. I think Budgie was the same way, tons of slack and just a few keepers.

Thanks for the input Richie, guess it will take a bit (hopefully) of trial and error but with yours and mighty advise I hope I can make it to work decently first time.

More update next week guys!

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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 28th 2023, 8:09 am

Hi Guys, got the clutch I believe sorted out, belt tension seems fairly tight when clutch is out and motor pulley spin freely when clutch is pushed in.
Got a few more things to do before test run but feel quite confident about that clutch deal.
Tried to follow the given advises, thanks again for the guys that chimed in 😊.
Here are the pictures of the set up
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2021
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2022
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2020

Let me know if you see anything that may cause some troubles
Thanks
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Brianator
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 28th 2023, 12:28 pm

The only potential problem I see is how the idler near the engine pulley is pulling the belt away from the pulley but if it doesn't cause belt slip then it's not an issue! If it does you'll want to try and move it more towards the center of the machine


My All Terrain Tractors:
- "The WarHorse" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Romping in Progress!)
- Roper "Trailblazer" ~ 1986 Roper LT110CR (Trailblazing in Progress!)
- The "Mud Duck" ~ 1969 Bolens 1225 Hydro (2022 Build Off 2nd place!)
- The "Silver Bullet" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Part 1)
- The "Silver Bullet" (Take 2) ~ 2024 Build Off entry (Work in progress)
- Roper "Offroadster" ~ 1979 Roper T4328 (Romping in Progress!)
- 1973 Massey Ferguson MF12 ~ (Sold to a good home)



                             Click Here To See The DIY and Build Threads I've Created!

                                            ~My Real Hobby Is Collecting Projects!~
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Hammernco
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 29th 2023, 8:03 am

Brianator wrote:
The only potential problem I see is how the idler near the engine pulley is pulling the belt away from the pulley but if it doesn't cause belt slip then it's not an issue! If it does you'll want to try and move it more towards the center of the machine
You are right that I llok at it, this is the way it is made from factory only difference is a smaller engine pulley.

Will see what it does, if it goes to sh*t, then I'll correct it following your instructions but will have to rethink the relaease mecanism to invert the way it fonctions Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 29th 2023, 10:40 am

Actually that is how many Engine side clutches work.  Engine pulley turns CCW (Looking from the angle pictured).  While it appears to pull the belt away, it is actually drawing the belt in on the pull side.  When clutch is pushed in, that tension is released from the pull side allowing the belt to slip.

I hope that made sense.

Sears Craftsman/AYP/Roper has used this same path for decades.   (Look at a sears suburban, same path just for a horizontal engine)
Look like the images above?

Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 St16_b10


Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Sig214Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Sig314

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Hammernco
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 29th 2023, 10:55 am

MightyRaze wrote:
Actually that is how many Engine side clutches work.  Engine pulley turns CCW (Looking from the angle pictured).  While it appears to pull the belt away, it is actually drawing the belt in on the pull side.  When clutch is pushed in, that tension is released from the pull side allowing the belt to slip.

I hope that made sense.

Sears Craftsman/AYP/Roper has used this same path for decades.   (Look at a sears suburban, same path just for a horizontal engine)
Look like the images above?

Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 St16_b10
All good then! Can't wait to test ride and revert back! 
Thanks for your input
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Headcase
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 29th 2023, 2:18 pm

Tires look bada**

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TechnoChicken
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 29th 2023, 5:32 pm

Headcase wrote:
Tires look bada**
badash is how we say it round here Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 30th 2023, 3:03 am

Headcase wrote:
Tires look bada**
I tried to look for the best shaped and cheapest deals I could find used!
Of course, I looked for the sizes first, 19 fronts and 22 inches in the back.
Eager to find out if traction will be good for my needs with those Bear claws in the back.
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeNovember 30th 2023, 9:09 am

Started on the frame reinforcement using some rectangular tubing I had laying around.
I split it in half as I only had a short piece in hand.
It stiffen the flimsy stock frame quite a bit already and I'm not done yet, still need to build a piece to join the two rail at the back in order to mount the rear fenders and seat and also find a way to make it strong enough to build the hitch and future accessories off of it.

Frame as I got it
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2023

Side raiils fuse over the existing

Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2025
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2024

More to come probably tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeDecember 1st 2023, 8:04 am

Good step forward, I can now sit on the darn thing! Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2027
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2026

Clutch pedal is now made to my liking, need to work on the shifter as neither one fit or shift nicely as is!

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RichieRichOverdrive
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeDecember 1st 2023, 5:09 pm

That frame is looking real stout! I think you will need some belt supports along the belt there to keep it from sagging. Or maybe you can do a belly pan, that would be cool!

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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeDecember 1st 2023, 5:17 pm

Hammernco wrote:
Good step forward, I can now sit on the darn thing! Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2027
Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Img_2026

Clutch pedal is now made to my liking, need to work on the shifter as neither one fit or shift nicely as is!

Wow, nicely done, those welds look great, that Stick? We will not talk about my welds, lol yours look great!
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeDecember 1st 2023, 5:19 pm

Also you weld those rear rims on? lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeDecember 1st 2023, 5:22 pm

PizzaKitty26 wrote:
Also you weld those rear rims on? lol!
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, I personally welded the ones on your rig and they seem to hold up well decent option compared to the expensive one which is buying hubs. And WAAAAAYYYY better then welding the hubs direct to the trans, that is an outright sin in my book

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PostSubject: Re: Project VAP Off-road logger   Project VAP Off-road logger - Page 2 Icon_minitimeDecember 1st 2023, 7:15 pm

RichieRichOverdrive wrote:
That frame is looking real stout! I think you will need some belt supports along the belt there to keep it from sagging. Or maybe you can do a belly pan, that would be cool!
Thaught about doing one, depends on the material I have in hand and how the belt does once I ride it
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