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 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”

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Nevadablue
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MightyRaze
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2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 05, 2021 8:11 pm

Also, we talking front or rear?  I got lost.  Guessing rear.   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 1f631


Last edited by MightyRaze on Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 05, 2021 8:12 pm

@Nevadablue wrote:
Do any shops have wheel working presses any more? I had the rims on my ‘42 Jeep straightened on such a contraption years ago. It clamped the center solidly and could manipulate any part of the wheel. Looked like a regular hydraulic press with attachments. 

So, when you say ‘bent’, do you mean it wobbles or it isn’t round or what. The wobble may be fairly easy to fix if you have access to a hydraulic press. I think the center could be clamped by the press and the rim pried until it is straight. 

Yes, what you describe would work, but unless you have a friend with a lathe (bring it over, we can do it), it will be spendy.

I know a guy who runs an auto garage, I’ll have to ask him. I like your idea  @Nevadablue, many thanks! Very Happy

@MightyRaze these are the fronts rims. I spent 60 bucks for the pair so that’s why I’m upset about the whole thing. The rears are next on my list to address but for the rare size that it is it’s not going to be cheap so that’s down the road aways.

Edit: by bent I mean wobble. Sorry, I should have clarified.

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 05, 2021 9:04 pm

If you got those rims on ebay, I would dispute the sale. I got a sewing machine once, that was damaged (before the sale, but not shown). I got the guy to knock off a LOT of the price, since the machine part I needed had to come from England. Worth a try anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 05, 2021 10:00 pm

Think that will work with the sale being as long ago as it was? I was thinking about asking for a partial refund of some sort.

Honestly though, if I can get all my money back I will probably just bite the bullet and do that trailer spindle conversion. Surplus center had some cheap "log splitter" rims that were just an inch or so shorter and a smidge narrower. But I'd rather use these type of rims, cheaper overall and less fuss.
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 06, 2021 12:03 am

Here’s a video of Bad Chad putting different centers in wheels. Of course, these are the same diameter centers, but what you asked about is what he did. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwves2jMB0U

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSun Oct 17, 2021 8:37 am

Also, digging through some schematics, I was able to confirm that this tractor is in fact a 1997. Apparently in 1998 they changed the steering gear shaft to accept a bolt rather than a nut. Haven’t done much to her lately aside from joy riding around. Need to get the pressure washer out again…pretty muddy round these parts.

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSun Oct 17, 2021 8:47 am

@Rustbucket Garage wrote:
the hydro does moan some though and there are small air bubbles in it- you fill it through the dipstick and I couldn’t fit a funnel so I used an oil can. Will the air bubbles cause damage? It isn’t ridiculously loud but it can barely be heard at full throttle.

Edit: apparently air bubbles are very bad for the hydro and that is why the loud whining is a problem. It will get a fluid change this weekend.


Forgot to mention this but I wanted to close out that issue.

I realized that all the other hydros I’ve used make some noise, and I attribute the noise now to the size of the tranny. After the suggestions I got I purged the tranny and the bubbles are gone and the noise remained the same. It’s a big honking hydro so I’m pretty sure that’s why its louder than the others. I really like this eaton, very very nice hydro. Also sorry for the multi post 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 1098998679

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 26, 2021 9:54 pm

So, I haven't done any work recently on WL. She's been sitting in the barn dormant for the most part.

Good news though on the transaxle (I think)

So I found a gear set for another 2500, albeit a 2514 and not a 2526 like mine for a price that I think is reasonable. But the gears all look identical, as do the shafts. I've been told peerless reuses parts like this a lot, and I think this will work. However, I wanted to check and make sure that I'm not getting too hopeful. What say ye? Buy it and try it? I wouldn't mind doing a rear end rebuild so long as I can find all the seals.

Also, with the front rims, I'm just going to admit those were a waste of money at this point and buy a set of 4 on 4 hubs and rims and stuff. Thank you to all who had suggestions on how i could straighten or fix the rims but I don't want to be putting more work into them though- you guys are always very helpful! Very Happy Yes the 4 on 4 hubs are expensive, (180 for all the whistles) yes it's going to need some fab work, yes it's probably overkill but I don't want to replace bushings or see wobbly wheels all the time. I'm going to set the rims aside and use them for a hay wagon or something along those lines to cart my leaves around every fall. I usually rake/bag about 5 cubic yards once it's all packed.

Oh, I did go and (FINALLY!) fix the headlight wiring harness and this time it's actually crimped tight! Danceparty Maybe there's hope left for my wiring skills, even if I do occasionally strike an arc once in a while 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 1098998679 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 1098998679 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 1098998679
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 27, 2021 11:03 pm

@Rustbucket Garage wrote:
Well, I settled down, and realistically I think the transmission is going to be good for another two years. I will look out for a gear set or parts machine, and failing that I will retrofit a case 220 hydraulic transaxle and auxiliary functions. The case is a cast iron two speed so I’m out nothing, as long as the torque is the same which it should be. It’s not going to last for a long time as I had hoped, but it will keep going for some time.

Little late to the party, but offering valid info all the same.

Be aware that the Case 220 isn't hydrostatic, its hydraulic. That means you need to swap in not only the transmission, you need the hydraulic motor that bolts to it. You also need the hydraulic valve that controls the motor.Add to that the hydraulic pump and it needs to be a high flow one like the case pump. Then you'll need a way to drive the pump, and they don't like side loads. So you need a lovejoy coupler between the pump shaft and whatever you're using to drive it. Once you're got that sorted, you need to figure out a way to control the travel control valve. That's no simple feat as the valve has a total travel of about 3/4 inch from full reverse to full forward. Get it wrong and you've got runaway when the engine starts. Now you need all kinds of hard lines, a reservoir and a cooler/fan assembly (case hyd systems create a lot of heat, a cooler is not optional).

Even if you get all that done, you will have to figure out how to drive your blower PTO since the Case stuff doesn't have a pto. You also need to consider the Case specific issues. Biggest one is the tractor can run away on slopes if it doesn't have the holding valve in the hyd system.

I ran into all these things converting the MUT to case hydrive. It was a major PITA  and cost waaaaay more than I wanted it to.

I'd be more inclined to scrap the tractor and get something else, or find a parts tractor you can use to repair your white.

From personal experience, I would NOT recommend trying to convert it to case Hydrive. Especially if your strapped for cash. It's just not cheap and on top of that, it's all discontinued and out of production stuff.

Good luck.
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 28, 2021 6:56 am

@TourMax wrote:

Little late to the party, but offering valid info all the same.

Be aware that the Case 220 isn't hydrostatic, its hydraulic. That means you need to swap in not only the transmission, you need the hydraulic motor that bolts to it. You also need the hydraulic valve that controls the motor.Add to that the hydraulic pump and it needs to be a high flow one like the case pump. Then you'll need a way to drive the pump, and they don't like side loads. So you need a lovejoy coupler between the pump shaft and whatever you're using to drive it. Once you're got that sorted, you need to figure out a way to control the travel control valve. That's no simple feat as the valve has a total travel of about 3/4 inch from full reverse to full forward. Get it wrong and you've got  runaway when the engine starts. Now you need all kinds of hard lines, a reservoir and a cooler/fan assembly (case hyd systems create a lot of heat, a cooler is not optional).

Even if you get all that done, you will have to figure out how to drive your blower PTO since the Case stuff doesn't have a pto. You also need to consider the Case specific issues. Biggest one is the tractor can run away on slopes if it doesn't have the holding valve in the hyd system.

I ran into all these things converting the MUT to case hydrive. It was a major PITA  and cost waaaaay more than I wanted it to.

I'd be more inclined to scrap the tractor and get something else, or find a parts tractor you can use to repair your white.

From personal experience, I would NOT recommend trying to convert it to case Hydrive. Especially if your strapped for cash. It's just not cheap and on top of that, it's all discontinued and out of production stuff.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice, and insight. It’s nice to hear from somebody who has more experience than me. Right now I think I’m going to rebuild the transaxle and I doubt there should be any more issues. If a parts tractor falls in my lap I will definitely go that route because I am missing the side panels and the 3 pt linkage, and the rear tires are absolutely done for by this point. I know that any major work I this trans and I am in for a headache, but seeing as I’m sentimental I want to hang on to this tractor as long as I can.

Apparently John Deere used a 2500 in the model 400, so I found a gearset from one that in theory should be a drop in replacement, (lest JD changed something) so that’s my current plan. After hearing your points I will definitely stay away from the case stuff, to keep things simple. If I had a runaway I’d be coming down the hill hitting 30 or so, might need a runaway truck lane on my driveway lol.

Thanks again for the advice! 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 2731072446
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 28, 2021 1:12 pm

@Rustbucket Garage wrote:
@TourMax wrote:

Little late to the party, but offering valid info all the same.

Be aware that the Case 220 isn't hydrostatic, its hydraulic.  It's just not cheap and on top of that, it's all discontinued and out of production stuff.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice, and insight. It’s nice to hear from somebody who has more experience than me. Right now I think I’m going to rebuild the transaxle and I doubt there should be any more issues. If a parts tractor falls in my lap I will definitely go that route because I am missing the side panels and the 3 pt linkage, and the rear tires are absolutely done for by this point. I know that any major work I this trans and I am in for a headache, but seeing as I’m sentimental I want to hang on to this tractor as long as I can.

Apparently John Deere used a 2500 in the model 400, so I found a gearset from one that in theory should be a drop in replacement, (lest JD changed something) so that’s my current plan. After hearing your points I will definitely stay away from the case stuff, to keep things simple. If I had a runaway I’d be coming down the hill hitting 30 or so, might need a runaway truck lane on my driveway lol.

Thanks again for the advice! 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 2731072446

Runaway might be a bit too extreme term. It conjures up images of screaming, panicked, uncontrolled, dangerous conditions. If you operate HyDrive system the right way, you won't get into a runaway condition. Problem is: operating the HyDrive system in a way to avoid runaway is kind of counter intuitive to how most lawn tractors would be operated.

The Case stuff basically has no brakes. It's just how they designed it. There is a parking brake, but it's not meant to be a dynamic brake, just a parking brake to hold it in place on level ground.

What Case does is use the hydraulic drive to control the wheel speed. So if you're going downhill, you are supposed to keep on the throttle but get the TCV (travel control valve) into a very small region of the spool travel called "retard". As long as you hold it there, the tractor won't go any faster.

The problem with a runaway is people don't take the time to learn how to use the Case HyDrive. So when going downhill, they instinctively hit the brake pedal when they think they are going too fast or maybe they even panic a little bit. But pressing the brake pedal causes a linkage to pull the TCV into it's neutral position, so you loose all the hydraulic braking/retard unless you use your hand to hold the travel lever in place against the brake spring.

But once the pedal is pressed and the TCV goes to neutral, you are relying solely on the parking brake to stop a near 1000 lb machine. It's usually not up to it and the tractor is now freewheeling down the slope with it's panicking/screaming operator along for the ride. You have to get it back into the "retard" setting to get it back under control, but people don't think that way and end up just stomping on the brake harder and screaming louder.

As if that wasn't enough of a problem, the parking brake only locks the input shaft when applied. With the Case transaxle being an open differential, should you be on anything slippery at all (IE: ice, damp grass, etc) the brake does nothing as the open diff allows the wheels to turn, regardless of brake input. One last insult is that the wheels will rotate in opposite directions (the way open diffs work) and could result in not only a "runaway" downhill condition, you can also end up with the damned thing swapping ends on you. Not fun.

The solution to this behavior (for newbies to Case HyDrive) was to add a holding valve inline between the hyd motor and the TCV. Then, when you moved the TCV to it's neutral position (either by hand or by brake linkage), the holding valve would lock the pressure in the motor, thus preventing aforementioned runaway conditions.  These holding valves are hard to find these days and don't count on getting one (if you CAN find one) for less than 300-400 bucks. When Ingersoll took over the case lawn/garden tractor div, they incorporated the holding valve into the TCV. These TCV/integrated holding valve units are even rarer than the holding valves and go for anywhere between 400-500 bucks. I bought one for the MUT and man, it hurt...a LOT!

If you got a donor Case/Ingersol tractor, you might be able to make it work at a reasonable cost. But I would probably rebuild a Case/Ingersoll tractor rather than trying to graft the HyDrive system onto a non Case/Ing chassis.

I did it on the MUT. It was super expensive and took a lot of design/fab. Learned to not do it again unless I already have the parts lying around  and that i should have just ponied up for a better tractor from the get go. Would have been less hassle, and saved me (literally) thousands of dollars.....or at least dollars that could have gone towards a better rig instead of now languishing out in my scrp pile...
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 28, 2021 2:46 pm

Neat, like a jake brake in the hydro. My lord is that an expensive valve! And here I am complaining about a couple hundred bucks to fix my front spindles. Guess I’m a penny pincher or flat poor lol.
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 02, 2021 9:14 am

Had a thought with that bent rim… is it possible I bent it trying to drive out the old bearings? The bearings sit about 1” out from the center plates I guess you’d call them. I was using a 2 lb hammer and a piece of rod.
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 04, 2021 9:06 pm

@Rustbucket Garage wrote:
Had a thought with that bent rim… is it possible I bent it trying to drive out the old bearings? The bearings sit about 1” out from the center plates I guess you’d call them. I was using a 2 lb hammer and a piece of rod.

I'm still interested, if anyone has any ideas on this.

On another note...

I bought some hood latches for the ol girl, and lemme tell ya, WHAT A CHORE. First the hood didn't sit square and the latches would have looked weird, and I still haven't been able to fix that. Then, to make matters worse, the bit for the #10-24 riv nuts that I was going to use was the one size I didn't have (9/32). 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 2429134702 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 2429134702 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 2429134702 Me being a very dumb person, I tip-sized a 1/4 bit to the rivnut, and it seemed right, but inevitably the hole was too small. I will be borrowing a bit tomorrow to resize the one hole and do the next four, and then on to squaring the hood. That'll teach me not to try and call something a 20 minute job... Rolling Eyes

As to why I drilled the one hole, I lined up the reciever brackets on the side panels and the latches need to get squared on the hood. I'll probably need to remove the entire hood to fix this, but oh well I guess. Should be able to get everything taken care of tomorrow.

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 06, 2021 8:29 pm

Well after a large deal of non-forum friendly language, frustration and general orneriness they’re in. The hood itself was a snap and the side panels weren’t too bad but the bit walked on one so the hole looks funny but you don’t see it anyways. Drove around and its soooooo nice not having the hood bounce and rattle. 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 74018110

Nice to finally have that done.

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 06, 2021 9:04 pm

Nice! I put some latches on The Green Machine  "TGM" as well.  I love 'em.

2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Img_2532

_______________________________________________
Tractors:
Li'l Red 89 Murray Widebody
Kal-El 82 Murray GT -Retired-
TheGreenMachine 89 Craftsman GT18
Bowser 01 Murray Widebody LT 
Thor 77 Hydro Sears Suburban
Grandpa 75 Sears ST/16
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2021 7:27 am

You got the fancy latches I see. 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 2664539216

Sure is a nice upgrade eh?
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2021 9:22 am

I put a hood pin on long ago it helps quite a bit but those latches would be better might rob some from a tool box LOL

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 16, 2021 8:30 am

2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Screen29

Got bored so I did a digital mock up or something on the computer. This is what the hood fenders and grill will look like all together and mounted, at least in a rough sense.

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 16, 2021 10:51 am

that looks pretty darn cool, I re-read the thread and saw you were going to make the hood/grill look like a 300 series Brockway in my opinion I think ya nailed it.

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 16, 2021 8:04 pm

Thank you! Hey I try I guess.

Looks like the tranny rebuils is definitely happening next spring. I found all the seals for a good price so I think I’ll go ahead with it.
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2021 9:44 am

thats always great! i rebuilt my spicer that threw the reverse chain always a fun time rebuilding them getting rusty seized bolts out then reassembling without making a big mess
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2021 5:15 pm

Nice thing about these 2500s is exactly that. Nice big bolts that won’t break as easy, and no reverse chain. Gear all the way to the axles. Gotta wonder why those chains explode so often… those lt trannys really aren’t that bad if it wasn’t for the aluminum housing and that 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 252588580 chain.

On another note I found this picture. Apparently bush hog used to make garden tractors and they remind me a lot of what I’m aiming for.
2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Ea49254ab82536b283e117cc69b26c7a?AccessKeyId=BA5835D2C0736AD5C58B&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2021 9:54 pm

I think we all are drooling over that bumper drewl

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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 18, 2021 11:44 pm

That Bush Hog is cool as heck! I just read through your whole thread and wow you've been through some times with WL eh?! Good on you for pushing through and keepin' her going, it's a cool tractor and I love what you've done/are doing with it! Keep it up!
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PostSubject: Re: 2055 White resto modding “White Lightning”   2055 White resto modding “White Lightning” - Page 5 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 19, 2021 6:52 am

Thank you! Yeah she’s had a couple problems but I can always count on her to keep on going. Right now the plan is to do a tear down this spring to check the transaxle and do a new crank seal, along with some other little things. After that I think honestly she shouldn’t have any more issues.

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