Roper "Offroadster"

I've finally gotten around to tinkering on tractors after a bit of a hiatus, been pretty busy with work and things that need doing but now it's time to tackle 2 things I've been wanting to: put bigger tires on the front of this rig and find a way to use the hubs I got from GPS several months ago!


I've not been able to use them yet because they're too long for the spindles on any of the tractors I want to use them on but that changes now!

A quick measurement told me I need to take a minimum of 3/8" off for them to work but instead I decided to take a 1/2" (1/4" from each side) to make space for the front washers. After banging out the bearings and wheel studs I chucked them up in the lathe, markered them, scribed a line and had at it!

Looks like I nailed it first time, just enough freeplay for a shim washer if I want to install one. In the future I'll probably add grease zerks and remove the inner seals on the bearings but for now I just want to get them installed.

For my next trick I'll be devising a centering ring that fits over the hub and in the center hole of the wheel so I can mark and drill the new mounting holes cocentric but that can't happen until I scrounge up the right piece of material to do so...

Here's one of the new/used wheels and tires I scored a few weeks ago, got 4 of them for $100! 2 are great and 2 are okay... these are the okay ones.

Something cool about the parts I'm using is that because both the hubs and the wheels both have 2 different offsets each I'll have my choice of 4 possible offsets to play with to really be able to dial in clearance and front width!

Feels good to get even a little something accomplished!

Very nice! Nicer to have equipment to do it right! Never thought about knocking the studs out and redrilling for atv tire bolt pattern. (something I will keep in mind)

Sure I guess you could go that way as well but I knocked the studs out for reasons times 3...
1) to fit them in the lathe
2) to be able to mark the wheels for drilling
3) to be able to flip the hubs around to play with the backspacing before finalizing.

Side note: You fellas in the States are lucky when it comes to these parts, I got hosed on these! After the currency conversion, shipping and a hefty surprise duty fee I paid double what you all would, had I known I never would have ordered them and I never will again

Brianator wrote:

Side note: You fellas in the States are lucky when it comes to these parts, I got hosed on these! After the currency conversion, shipping and a hefty surprise duty fee I paid double what you all would, had I known I never would have ordered them and I never will again

YIKES, that sux.  I could just imagine.  Doesn't help for this, but looking to use amazon.ca for the B/o prizes.

Brianator wrote:

Sure I guess you could go that way as well but I knocked the studs out for reasons times 3...
1) to fit them in the lathe
2) to be able to mark the wheels for drilling
3) to be able to flip the hubs around to play with the backspacing before finalizing.

Side note: You fellas in the States are lucky when it comes to these parts, I got hosed on these! After the currency conversion, shipping and a hefty surprise duty fee I paid double what you all would, had I known I never would have ordered them and I never will again

A lot of parts in Canada are like that.

Hub looks good on here! Why not drill the rim's bolt pattern into the hub? That would be a little bit more manageable I think, and you could actually use the lathe to scribe a circle at the bolt circle diameter of the rim, and then you can find a way to index 90° and then scribe four more lines, then center punch and drill the intersections of the four lines with the circle!

I did that exact thing with my south bend a few years back, except with 5 divisions.




But if you don't want to drill holes in your new hubs I guess I'd understand

Lol. You smashed the nail right on the head there @RichieRichOverdrive I don't want to drill the hubs even though I know it's a much easier route, if I was in a panic it'd be done already but I'm not so nope! Lol. I don't like the idea of swiss cheesing them nor do I want to fill those massive holes with weld for strength, I do hope to find stronger wheels with the right bolt pattern in the future plus the challenge of making a centering ring for me is part of the fun!

Excellent advice and I do appreciate it though! Have to say I'm a little jelly of that 4 jaw chuck, one is definitely on my wish list as is a vertical milling plate and making a tool post drill jig.

You should be able to find a 4 jaw chuck pretty cheap, could probably get one of the Amazon ones and be just fine. The nice part of a 4 jaw is the accuracy is all up to you. Back when I did that project I posted I only had a 4 jaw and was always wishing I had a 3 jaw. Better than wishing I had a 4 jaw though. Also a milling attachment is handy, but I’ve just set up an angle plate and clamped pieces where I wanted them cut. I had plans to set up my compound slide with a little vise for a milling attachment but never got around to it before I got the Bridgeport. And by toolpost drill, do you mean a toolpost drill chuck or actually having a powered spindle on the cross slide for off center drilling?

Also if I were using those hubs I’d definitely be bracing them up. I know I’d have those thin plates all bent up pretty quick. Though I don’t suppose your riding style is quite as hard as mine

@RichieRichOverdrive maybe, it's a Myford ML10 so the right parts aren't as common but they are out there, not in the budget atm though. The tool post drill jig is for using a drill to drill off center, I like how this fella made one with an existing boring bar holder.


Dude, I don't think anyone's riding style is as hard as yours! Lol. I haven't been TOO easy on my machines and have been slowly building this one up to be able to take a beating, it has a great solid frame, a 633a, I rebuilt the steering to be nearly bulletproof and have other reinforcement mods planned so reinforcing the hubs is a good idea along with adding gussets to the spindles but I haven't really been able to get out much and it's taking the wind from my sails (a big reason I've barely been working on them). It's not too safe going out on your own (or as fun) and my riding buddy moved to the east coast so when I do go out on my own I'm just taking it easy (also not as fun). I really enjoy building but if I can't find people to ride with (I've been trying for a couple years) it's only a matter of time before I give up on it and stick to building up my utility tractors I can actually use and enjoy regularly...

Next summer will most likely be the deciding factor when it comes to that so I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Just figure out your spindle thread and find a chuck, spindle types have been fairly uniform for about a hundred years now! I can go on ebay and find a chuck or backplate for my 1927 south bend super easy, it's just a standard 1 1/2-8 spindle thread. Yours may be the same!

This roper is definitely a tough tractor! Sears 3/4 spindles seem to have the benefit of usually just bending instead of breaking like wheel horse spindles. Reinforcement is good for them, I seem to remember mr.moo reinforcing the spindles on his baja sears. I think I reinforced the ones on budgie too, that was after dad broke one though

Success!

After a couple of evenings of mild frustration trying to find the right piece of material to make a centering ring I ended up going really low tech while getting reasonable accuracy! The 5/16" nuts were a snug fit between the hub and the wheel, the nuts in the stud holes just needed the edges knocked off to fit so I could get good center marks.


The "matching" wheel was not a match! It had slightly different profiles so I thought what the heck I'll just use the nicer rims and tires (that I actually want to put on the Massey) but it turned out the center bore of those wheels is just too big...


... so I carried on with the others. Based on the location of the pilot holes in regards to the old hub mark I'd say I pretty much nailed it!


Once all the holes were drilled I aired them up and sprayed them with soapy water, wouldn't you guess that the one tire has alot of leaking cracks in the sidewall... the other tire has some small leaks too so I think I may try the "ATF in the tire trick" and if that doesn't work then they'll get tubed!


With them on it was time to check clearances. No issues with the footboards but I'll have to either turn the muffler forward or relocate it. At full articulation and turn on one side the tire will hit the frame and on the other side the fan guard but it does still turn pretty tight so once I limit the steering it will be a non issue. In the future I might replace the engine with a Honda clone anyways as that's the only real way I'll get the space needed for a pulley swap and if I do I should regain the lost turning radius.


I might be able to just stack washers on these bolts for the win but I thought that maybe I could make cam style spacers instead by drilling offset holes in round stock so they're adjustable and can be dialed in per side... not a bad idea if I say so myself but I'll cross that bridge another time.


With the new tires on it sits much more level and looks so much better than the snowblower tires that were on it, don't get me wrong they're actually really nice but they're just too small. Here's a before and after.


I'm really glad to have gotten around to doing that finally! Need to play around with rear tires soon!

Love the update.  I see now what you were doing with the wheels and hubs.

Seeing other members being active and building has given me a little motivation to pull this rig out of it's year long slumber! I can't believe I didn't have to boost the battery or spray it to life, after a couple of attempts it roared to life! Runs like garbage, it's acting like it's choked but it's been nearly a year since I started it so I'm sure the fuel is stale and I need to clean the carburetor too but I'm not complaining! My plan is to bring it back up to snuff so it's more or less ready to ride again, some upgrades are on the agenda too but nothing too crazy (for now).

This past summer I bought the contents of a small shed for $100 that had 3/4 of a dirtbike, close to half a quad, shocks, exhausts, wheels, tires, axles and 3 engines! I also scored some ITP Holeshots in good shape for $30 which brings me to my next point!

BAM! Pizza cutters be gone!  Lol. I had to bend the fenders for clearance but then the problem was the front end was sitting low again like it did with the snowblower tires, luckily that shed had some 10" ATV wheels with 21x7-10's! I do have the disc brake spindles, calipers and lines as well, I knocked the bearings out of a hub, test mocked it up and it looks good so I ordered direct fit bearings for them (6203-19RS2). That will be a later upgrade but for now I ended up doing what I didn't want to do because there was no other way to mount the front wheels tonight... I drilled another bolt pattern in the GPS hubs. You can see the original holes in the hub overhanging so obviously drilling the wheels was out of the question.

I used a compass to make overlapping marks between stud holes so I could then use a center square to mark lines. I used the compass again to get the wheel as centered as possible and a small nut I filed to center mark for the new holes (top right hole).

I drilled one test hole to 3/8" (slightly oversized) and decided that's as close to the edge as I want to get so 3/8" bolts and nuts it is! I'm very proud of myself for nailing both hubs first time in the sense that all 8 bolts dropped right in without having to finesse anything!


So now it's sitting level again but with a meaner look and more ground clearance! I'll try to duplicate the third photo in this post in the daylight for a better side by side comparison. It's definitely gotten tight up there and I've lost some turning radius (especially under articulation) but I think I can gain some back easily and in the future gain even more.

Looks good! 21x7-10 is definitely my favorite front tire size on a mower.

You may have to sand your spindles down a tiny bit to use the 6203-19 bearings. 19mm is only .748”, but the cold rolled they make these spindles out of generally runs on size or just a few thousandths undersize. Probably would have better to order 6203-12 / 6203-3/4 bearings, those are the 6203s with the actual 3/4” bore.

6203s are really a beautiful bearing. I mean they’re so ubiquitous that you can order them with about any size bore you want. It’s great.

Thanks! 10's are actually a first for me.

You're right but the ones I ordered are $10 cheaper, I've polished the spindles before and figure worst case I'll sand/polish the bore of the bearings, they're really cheap so it shouldn't be too hard.

I'm going to further explain the front disc brake setup I'm planning on installing in further detail, if you haven't ridden a tractor with front brakes yet you're really missing out! The amount of control you gain going downhill and crawling down from stuff is seriously impressive! It's a mod that is worth every minute and dollar you spend on it.

Here's some of the parts I had scored from that shed, unfortunately I only got the control arms for one side but I do have another full set from a parts ATV I bought several years ago. More on that later because yes I would love to go full suspension on the front one day.


Here after I knocked the bearings out I mocked it up to see if it could work and it looks good but I have a feeling the backspacing of that hub is more inbound than the GPS hubs and that I would have to make a spindle extension to push the wheels out but it's too soon to tell. I want to get away from the E-clips anyways so regardless grade 8 3/4" bolts will eventually get grafted onto the spindles and I'll use castle nuts to lock it. Sorry for the crummy photo.


There's no doubt I'll have to make a spacer that pushes the hub outwards and also duplicates this shoulder that rests against the inner bearing and provides a surface for the seal.


These brakes are pretty small but I feel confident they'll still work well, the 6" drums on The Warhorse have no problem locking up even on hills. These are so small in fact that they would also work with a 8" rim, there isn't alot of room but definitely enough.

The plan for now is to mount those hubs with the 10" wheels on the spindles and hope the backspacing is still okay, at least as okay as the GPS hubs. If not then the GPS hubs go back on until I install spindle extensions. I would like to at least have these hubs finalized for this summer, I can work on caliper mounting brackets later when I have time.

The next part of this is suspension. Luckily the disc brake spindles fit the old drum brake control arms perfectly but I'm not sure about the angle of the balljoint plates, I have a feeling they might jack the front end up too far? I guess I could either flatten the angle of the plates if need be or perhaps drop back down to 19x7-8 tires. I've seen setups on quads and mini jeeps with that ridiculous control arm angle and the steering geometry is horrible! They also suffer from the worst bump steer I've ever seen so I'd probably be more inclined to flatten the ball joint plates.

Just to add to that last bit, the difference in the ball joint plates and arm angles is directly due to the differences in the spindle designs as seen here.


The last thing is that the control arm pivot looks like it's a perfect fit for the front axle pocket so that's a bonus and would give me a great starting point! The wheelbase would naturally get stretched by using the control arms which would gain me alot of steering clearance as well. Sorry again for another crummy picture.

Sorry for talking your ear off I hope I'm not boring you! Lol.