All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum

Like riding lawn tractors through mud, woods, rocks, and snow? Then this is the place for you! Share your ideas, Post your projects and more!
 
PortalHomeSite RulesEventsFAQSearchRegisterLog inBuild-Off

 

 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.

Go down 
+2
MightyRaze
CRAFTSMAN MUDDER
6 posters
AuthorMessage
CRAFTSMAN MUDDER
Member
CRAFTSMAN MUDDER
Member

1st Place Build-Off 2023
1st Place Build-Off Winner 2023

Join date : 2017-03-17
Points : 2684
Posts : 61

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 5th 2023, 7:49 pm

Got a 820 Iv been building, going with a doc locker style locker, including the addition of a 1" keyed shaft. I'm going to be replacing the inner axle, needle bearings with bronze bushings, as the keyed shaft is not hardend, and the keyway will destroy the needle bearings (pictured). Curious if others have remedied this, and where they sourced brass bushings. Found some on ebay (found a part # through a stretch 44875 video)  but no shipping option to Canada is available. Thanks820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. 20221211


Last edited by Brianator on January 5th 2023, 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Removed double posted photo.)
Back to top Go down
MightyRaze
Administrator
MightyRaze
Administrator

2017 Build-Off Finalist
2017 Build-Off Finalist
2018 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2018 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2019 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2019 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2021 Winner of Winners
2021 Winner of Winners
1st Place Build-Off 2022
1st Place Build-Off Winner 2022
10,000 POSTS!
10,000 POSTS!
2024 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant

Age : 49
Join date : 2016-09-06
Points : 15047
Posts : 10629
Location : Oklahoma

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 5th 2023, 9:50 pm

I've heard this mod and think it may be a good one.  I still have my needle bearings still on my doc locker with no issue.  I have seen the carnage of loosing the needles and it's pretty bad.  Have you checked your local hardware stores?  Maybe Princess Auto up there?


820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig214820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig314
Back to top Go down
CRAFTSMAN MUDDER
Member
CRAFTSMAN MUDDER
Member

1st Place Build-Off 2023
1st Place Build-Off Winner 2023

Join date : 2017-03-17
Points : 2684
Posts : 61

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 5th 2023, 10:16 pm

@MightyRaze
Gonna try PrincessAuto after work tomorrow, also going to two local bearing and seal shops, in search of new outer axle bearings, aswell as a bronze bushings option. Was able to track some down through a local lawn tractor shop, however they would be 4-6 weeks away, or more.
Back to top Go down
MightyRaze
Administrator
MightyRaze
Administrator

2017 Build-Off Finalist
2017 Build-Off Finalist
2018 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2018 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2019 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2019 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2021 Winner of Winners
2021 Winner of Winners
1st Place Build-Off 2022
1st Place Build-Off Winner 2022
10,000 POSTS!
10,000 POSTS!
2024 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant

Age : 49
Join date : 2016-09-06
Points : 15047
Posts : 10629
Location : Oklahoma

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 5th 2023, 10:30 pm

Is the size (1.003 ID x 1.253 OD x 1.00 long) or basically 1x1.25x1 inch?  I like I mentioned.  I need to do the exact thing on mine.  Not sure if you know who Lawrence Deel is.  He was the most recent victim I know of the needle bearing failure with the gokart axle.


820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig214820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig314
Back to top Go down
Brianator
Moderator
Brianator
Moderator

1000+ Posts
1000+ Posts!
2022 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2022 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2023 Build-Off Entrant
2023 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant

Age : 45
Join date : 2019-07-02
Points : 4333
Posts : 2382
Location : Ontario, Canada

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 5th 2023, 11:33 pm

There's other options here guys, first and foremost would be to get unkeyed roundstock, cut it to length and have keyways milled on the ends to your specifications. Yes it's the most costly but makes your whole setup much stronger. If you're handy you could in fact fill the sections of the keyway the needles would roll on by welding, grinding then ALOT of filing and sanding to bring it into spec.

Alot of guys want to swap over to needle bearings for strength, I understand your concern with a keyed axle and would do the same as you if it was my only option so don't think I don't understand where you're coming from here!  Lol.

Hey @CRAFTSMAN MUDDER where do you hail from? I'm a couple hours north of Toronto.


My All Terrain Tractors:
- "The WarHorse" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Romping in Progress!)
- Roper "Trailblazer" ~ 1986 Roper LT110CR (Trailblazing in Progress!)
- The "Mud Duck" ~ 1969 Bolens 1225 Hydro (2022 Build Off 2nd place!)
- The "Silver Bullet" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Part 1)
- The "Silver Bullet" (Take 2) ~ 2024 Build Off entry (Work in progress)
- Roper "Offroadster" ~ 1979 Roper T4328 (Romping in Progress!)
- 1973 Massey Ferguson MF12 ~ (Sold to a good home)



                             Click Here To See The DIY and Build Threads I've Created!

                                            ~My Real Hobby Is Collecting Projects!~
Back to top Go down
MightyRaze
Administrator
MightyRaze
Administrator

2017 Build-Off Finalist
2017 Build-Off Finalist
2018 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2018 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2019 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2019 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2021 Winner of Winners
2021 Winner of Winners
1st Place Build-Off 2022
1st Place Build-Off Winner 2022
10,000 POSTS!
10,000 POSTS!
2024 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant

Age : 49
Join date : 2016-09-06
Points : 15047
Posts : 10629
Location : Oklahoma

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 6th 2023, 12:47 am

Brianator wrote:
There's other options here guys, first and foremost would be to get unkeyed roundstock, cut it to length and have keyways milled on the ends to your specifications. Yes it's the most costly but makes your whole setup much stronger. If you're handy you could in fact fill the sections of the keyway the needles would roll on by welding, grinding then ALOT of filing and sanding to bring it into spec.

Alot of guys want to swap over to needle bearings for strength, I understand your concern with a keyed axle and would do the same as you if it was my only option so don't think I don't understand where you're coming from here!  Lol.

Hey @CRAFTSMAN MUDDER where do you hail from? I'm a couple hours north of Toronto.

I've tried the round stock and cutting in a keyway path once.  It was total failure.  Not because my keyway was pretty bad, but the first bump I hit bent the round stock pretty quick.  I was afraid my case would break.  Luckily It was at home and close to the garage.  I've thought about welding and grinding in, but was afraid of weakening the axle.  I have JB Weld in the keyway at the bearings to help keep the oil in.  The go-kart axle I have is pretty rigid.  Can't remember if I got the non-flex one.  I figured it would be safer on the case.  

In this case, it's a been pretty proven method in the mud mower community to go to the brass/bronze sleeves.  The keyway helps keep them oiled and they are good for lots of pressure and a good deal of heat.  I understand the desire for needle bearings, sometimes good ole bushing may be best.


820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig214820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig314
Back to top Go down
Brianator
Moderator
Brianator
Moderator

1000+ Posts
1000+ Posts!
2022 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2022 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2023 Build-Off Entrant
2023 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant

Age : 45
Join date : 2019-07-02
Points : 4333
Posts : 2382
Location : Ontario, Canada

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 6th 2023, 1:45 pm

MightyRaze wrote:
I've tried the round stock and cutting in a keyway path once.  It was total failure.  Not because my keyway was pretty bad, but the first bump I hit bent the round stock pretty quick.

Wow really? That's not good. Guess it depends on what type of material you used but I know 4340 chromoly is really tough, especially when heat treated but guess you can't really go wrong with a go kart axle that's for sure, it was designed to take the stress!

You're not wrong about bronze bushings, they really do take alot of abuse and hold up well!


My All Terrain Tractors:
- "The WarHorse" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Romping in Progress!)
- Roper "Trailblazer" ~ 1986 Roper LT110CR (Trailblazing in Progress!)
- The "Mud Duck" ~ 1969 Bolens 1225 Hydro (2022 Build Off 2nd place!)
- The "Silver Bullet" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Part 1)
- The "Silver Bullet" (Take 2) ~ 2024 Build Off entry (Work in progress)
- Roper "Offroadster" ~ 1979 Roper T4328 (Romping in Progress!)
- 1973 Massey Ferguson MF12 ~ (Sold to a good home)



                             Click Here To See The DIY and Build Threads I've Created!

                                            ~My Real Hobby Is Collecting Projects!~

MightyRaze likes this post

Back to top Go down
Sarge
New Member

New Member


Join date : 2022-11-03
Points : 565
Posts : 21

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 6th 2023, 4:03 pm

Wait, doesn't the bearing have an inner race?

I'm still on an FNR, so no roller bearings to worry about as I upgrade to a solid, keyed axle, but I'm surprised that an oilite bearing would be better for any power transmission application. I've seen others fill the keyway near the ends with RTV or other to prevent lube from getting out or grime from getting in, but never considered the keyed shaft causing problems for the bearings.

What if one set about carefully filing down some softer metal (copper, bronze, aluminum) in a scrap from said axle to make a "filler key"? Of course there's always JB Weld, but I haven't tried that since the 1990's. It would probably be easier to fill and file with that, even if less durable than a metallic filler.
Back to top Go down
Brianator
Moderator
Brianator
Moderator

1000+ Posts
1000+ Posts!
2022 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2022 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2023 Build-Off Entrant
2023 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant

Age : 45
Join date : 2019-07-02
Points : 4333
Posts : 2382
Location : Ontario, Canada

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 6th 2023, 4:10 pm

@Sarge no needle bearing do not have and actual inner race as seen here 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Scree153

Some, but not all FNRs have cutouts at the ends of the case for sealed bearings, I can't remember the exact specs right now but I'll be running them when I rebuild mine and run a strait axle locker.

A filler key is an excellent idea! JB weld it in place and it should be good to roll (pun intended)! Lol


My All Terrain Tractors:
- "The WarHorse" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Romping in Progress!)
- Roper "Trailblazer" ~ 1986 Roper LT110CR (Trailblazing in Progress!)
- The "Mud Duck" ~ 1969 Bolens 1225 Hydro (2022 Build Off 2nd place!)
- The "Silver Bullet" ~ 1984 Sears Craftsman LT(V)11 (MTD Built) (Part 1)
- The "Silver Bullet" (Take 2) ~ 2024 Build Off entry (Work in progress)
- Roper "Offroadster" ~ 1979 Roper T4328 (Romping in Progress!)
- 1973 Massey Ferguson MF12 ~ (Sold to a good home)



                             Click Here To See The DIY and Build Threads I've Created!

                                            ~My Real Hobby Is Collecting Projects!~
Back to top Go down
CRAFTSMAN MUDDER
Member
CRAFTSMAN MUDDER
Member

1st Place Build-Off 2023
1st Place Build-Off Winner 2023

Join date : 2017-03-17
Points : 2684
Posts : 61

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 6th 2023, 4:51 pm

@MightyRaze yes those dimensions seem to be correct headed to the city now to do some searching. @Brianator Good to see a fellow Canuck on here, I'm from Southern SK, near Regina, aka hill billy land lol

Brianator likes this post

Back to top Go down
CRAFTSMAN MUDDER
Member
CRAFTSMAN MUDDER
Member

1st Place Build-Off 2023
1st Place Build-Off Winner 2023

Join date : 2017-03-17
Points : 2684
Posts : 61

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 6th 2023, 6:52 pm

Update for you fellas.
I had good luck, and got some bronze, oil impregnated bushings ordered. 8$ a piece, through a local bearing supplier, Wajax. They are however about 4 thousands too big a round, so a bit of emery cloth, and she will be good to go. I will add a part number once I receive them sometime next week!
Back to top Go down
Rustbucket Garage
Veteran Member
Rustbucket Garage
Veteran Member

2022 Build-Off Entrant
2022 Build-Off Entrant
1000+ Posts
1000+ Posts!

Join date : 2021-01-15
Points : 2619
Posts : 1290
Location : Upstate New York

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 6th 2023, 6:58 pm

I think that close to the diff carrier/center point bronze bushings should be fine in a live axle deal. If you do want needle bearings- weld the jetway under the bearings closed, then take to a machine shop and have them ground down flush. Best of both worlds and shouldn’t cost too much for the work done. Just my .02
Back to top Go down
Sarge
New Member

New Member


Join date : 2022-11-03
Points : 565
Posts : 21

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 6th 2023, 9:12 pm

I thought I'd find machinists have solved this sort of issue with keyed shafts before, but I didn't find a solution other than filling with welding or epoxy and file/machine to dimension, or broach keyways only where you need them.

Got some PVC or PEX pipe laying around from a plumbing repair? Chances are it's thick enough, and it's easy enough to trim to dimension. If you can't stand the thought of recycling plastic to make them, McMaster-Carr has this plastic stock in several dimensions... https://www.mcmaster.com/8741K32/


Last edited by Sarge on January 10th 2023, 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
MightyRaze
Administrator
MightyRaze
Administrator

2017 Build-Off Finalist
2017 Build-Off Finalist
2018 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2018 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2019 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2019 Build-Off Top 3 Winner
2021 Winner of Winners
2021 Winner of Winners
1st Place Build-Off 2022
1st Place Build-Off Winner 2022
10,000 POSTS!
10,000 POSTS!
2024 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant

Age : 49
Join date : 2016-09-06
Points : 15047
Posts : 10629
Location : Oklahoma

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 6th 2023, 11:17 pm

The needle bearing personally work well, it's when they start wearing out and you do some pretty moderate off-roading causing the inner race to fail.  This is the carnage of one incident I know. (Not mine, this is a good fellow by the name of Lawrence Deel's rig this past fall)

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. 127

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. 223


820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig115PROJECTS:
     Marshal ........93 Craftsman GT6000      
     Red Bandit ...72 Wheel Horse Raider 12
     Dirty Rat........77 Sears Suburban
     Bowser..........01 Murray Widebody LT
     Other projects
Have a question? Ask me! Type in "@MightyRaze" in your post!
820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig214820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Sig314
Back to top Go down
RichieRichOverdrive
Moderator
RichieRichOverdrive
Moderator

2500+ Posts
2500+ Posts!
2018 Build-Off Entrant
2018 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant
2024 Build-Off Entrant

Age : 21
Join date : 2016-10-29
Points : 6594
Posts : 3625
Location : Lewisburg, KY

820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitimeJanuary 7th 2023, 2:02 am

PVC isn't all that great of a bushing material. Way too soft and not very wear resistant. Nylon or delrin would make a much better plastic bushing. Even UHMW would be better.

On my 820 I just filled the keyway with weld and turned it back down on a lathe. I realized later on that I almost definitely warped the axle to some degree from that. Probably not enough to damage anything, but it's definitely there.

Don't make those bushings too much of a press fit. Standard practice with heavy press fit bushings is to press them in and then machine them to final dimension in place. If the bushings get too loose from sanding then a big of loctite will keep them in place fine. The green loctite is ideal for that but I think red would be just fine.

Brianator likes this post

Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.   820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings. Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
820' - Replacing needle bearings with bronze bushings.
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Replacing plastic spindle bushings with metal ones, have ?'s
» Bearings for my rat rod racing mower instead of bushings
» What's cheaper and easier, Replacing the rings or replacing the motor with a new one?
» Bearings for MST transaxle?
» Bearings For Peerless MST-205

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
All-Terrain Lawn Tractor Forum :: Technical Forum :: Drivetrain & Brake Tech :: Transaxles and Transmissions-
Jump to: